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Speed Booster or Native MFT Lenses?
  • I have a GH2. I primarily do video. I have three native MFT lenses: Panasonic 25mm f/1.4, 14mm f/2.5, and 14-140mm f/4.0-5.6. I have done a lot of searching about the Metabones Speed Booster but want some confirmation if I should go ahead and get one. I really like Nikkor AIS lenses and am wondering if it would be wise to invest in a set of AIS lenses (and possibly some others) and a Speed Booster rather than more native MFT glass.

    The reasons I want the Speed Booster are pretty obvious: extra stop of light, wider viewing angle... But I want to know if it's really worth it. Will it actually make my lenses look better? I really want to know what the downsides are. Are there GH2/3 shooters who use the Speed Booster exclusively?

    I'd really appreciate any pointers or discussion on this.

  • 36 Replies sorted by
  • Yeah it's time to get my hands on the Sigma 18-35 and MB speedbooster, and start testing. Thanks

  • @matt_gh2 Yeah, no problem. Though if you shoot with the SB wide open, the bokeh does change but not as much as the non specific boosters. With the lenses I use on the BMPCC booster, I don't need to shoot wide open though. The Sigma is just fine at 1.8 and it's paired with the Sigma 50mm 1.4 that's good at 1.8 as well. I always intended to use the speedbooster to get me back to a normal FOV with glass so I could retain how the glass was intended in the first place. For example, actually be able to shoot handheld with a 50mm and it look good!

  • @vicharris The difference is that you only put one prime lens on your camera at a time. Nikkors are much lighter and much shorter. It's not a ginormous deal though especially seeing how the Sigma seems to be a super good looking lens.

  • @vicharris Do you find the image with the Sigma is the same with and without the booster? In other words, if you shoot a shot with sigma and and booster, and then do another take with booster off, do the 1st and 2nd take basically look identical in terms of the image type, texture, etc? Do they cut well together in editing?

  • So you would need a few primes to equal the Sigma. What's the difference? The sigma and the booster literally give you 5 or 6 prime focal lengths. I've been shooting with the BMPCC, speedbooster and the Sigma. It's really too hard to be beat right now.

  • @brianl That's interesting to hear. Hey Brian were you the one wanting to know what the Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 AIS was selling for? I think I told you they were selling for $200 but I just got an essentially mint one for $131!

    @Bara Yeah I know what you mean. The Sigma 18-35 looks really good but the only thing I don't like is the size. It seems like It wouldn't be much fun to carry around. The nice thing about the Nikkor primes is that they aren't really that heavy or awkwardly big.

  • I had the same idea as you Kokav, but mostly due to the new sigma 18-35. I have been shooting mostly with the 25 mm voigtlaender and the 12 olympus, and I really love them. The rest of my collection are canon FD lenses. (28, 50, 100)

    Right now I find myself thinking more and more about selling all of them, buying nikkor glass and the 18-35 sigma. The main reasons were already listed in here, my decision is mostly driven by the loss of value of those glasses and that they only work on mft. And as technology is developing so fast, you will surely love to invest for the long run.

    During some shoots I just got sick of changing all the time the lenses. Somehow I realized that it's pretty dumb to work with fixed focal lengths. I know they have better build quality and superior glass, but as long as I am not making any features films, it's just stupid. With the 18-35 zoom I will cover a wider range of focal lengths. When I buy the SB and a normal Adapter, I have even 2 focal lengths! The only bad thing I am worried about is no IS. But you will have the same problem with other nikons or primes, so I will end up working on a tripod. If there is a slight chance I will ever do a feature film, I will make sure to get funds or sponsors to be able to rent a real Film Camera equipment and some nice primes. The only thing I am concerned is about pulling focus with nikon glass :D

  • About the weatherproofing, over a 2.5 year period I spend hundreds of hours shooting along the Central California coast. Constant mist, fog, salty air, mildew, rain, spray, and sand. I was typically 10 meters or less from the waterline. I used the Oly 14-54 and Panny 45-210 mostly. I don't think anything was weather sealed. I wasn't exactly that protective of the gear either. I experienced zero weather damage that I know if. Only wear and tear issues unrelated to the elements. Just wondering if this weatherproof thing isn't more marketing sell than anything else. I know, I'm a single data point. Perhaps others have different stories.

  • @eyeBOX Aren't there only a few MFT lenses that are weather sealed?

  • If you planned to go to GH3, you'd also gain a weather sealed body / lens combo; whereas if you went with non mft, you'd lose that.

  • @Azo I shot for years (decades, really) with a Nikon FE so I have some experience with Nikon glass -- though not recent glass. I don't deny that there are examples of older lenses that are fine wide open (especially the slower variants). It's just been my experience that with a lot of the older Nikon and Canon lenses, when I lens had a f/1.4 aperture it often wasn't much good until f/2.8 or above.

    In contrast, virtually all of the MFT lenses I've used (except the Voigt 25mm) are not just useable but actually very good at full aperture. That includes the 12-35, Oly 45/1.8, 20/1.7, 14/2.5, 100-300, 45-150, and 7-14.

    But I agree that the AF lenses purely suck for manual focus.

  • @matt_gh2 the other thing to keep in mind, besides the modern look, is mixing modern with vintage, like they were at least thinking would be the way to go on that project Hurlbut was testing for. It's funny how the director was on board with that until seeing what was planned for the "period" segments and deciding, no, that's how I want the movie to look. Maybe they'll just put a panty over the Cookes for the "period" sections now to differentiate it, hah!

    Inter-cutting though, that just won't work.

    I shot a proof-of-concept western piece that's not finished post yet. I ended up using nothing but Pany on it because my AC volunteer hadn't ever done film before and though they were a good stills photographer in their own right I knew we weren't going to really be in sync on a one-day crazy schedule with everything we were having to get, indoors and out, stunts, plates, etc. so I removed swapping between Nikkor primes and re-configuring the FF all the time. Having the LUMIX in the bag kept us on schedule (well, it meant my department wasn't going to sink us). I can just see it when I look at the footage though, I wish I'd used the Nikkors.

  • @Xenocide38 I read your blog and I'm surprised at how well that cheap speed booster performs. I wonder if its all that worth it to go for the 'real' speed booster...

  • @brianl I'm using a cheap knockoff speedbooster I bought on Amazon. Albinar was the "brand" name but I suspect it's the same as the other generic ones.

    I wrote up a quick hands-on article on my blog along with sample images. stronzvanderploeg.net if you're looking for some more info and examples

  • @AdamT

    My copy of the Tokina AT-X PRO AF 28-70mm 1:2.6-2.8 Angenieux optical formula (Pro I with screw on hood) WIDE OPEN is really sharp. The first copy of Tokina AT-X PRO that I purchased was not of the Angenieux pedigree (Pro I with screw on hood) and sucked ass so I sold it right after I bought it. This is actually a good point for other lenses as well because sometimes the copy of the lens itself is shitty and I speak from experience from purchasing the same exact lens. I am anal as all get out when it comes to lens quality.

    I have an old Nikkor 70-210 F/4 that cost me a measly $175.00 bones that is sharp as fuck WIDE OPEN throughout the whole zoom range with almost no distortion. I really like this lens because it is small and compact and does not weigh a ton like my 80-200 F/2.8. I have also had and sold many other Nikon lenses such as the Nikkor AIS 105 F2/5, Nikkor 85mm F/2 AIS, Nikon 50mm 1.8 AIS, etc etc. I have personally tested each of these lenses on a full frame cameras and they were all excellent even wide open.

    Do you own a Nikon film camera or Nikon full frame camera? Did you get a chance to shoot with any of these lenses on a Nikon full frame camera or Panasonic GH2? I have and let me tell you they are excellent lenses and in my opinion are better then the Panasonic lenses for video for several different reasons.

    1. Build quality: Most of the older Nikon lenses are built with precision and do not have any electronics that will eventually fail on you.

    2. Manual focus: Nikon wins hands down providing you get a good copy of the lens with a smooth focus action.

    3. Versatility: Nikon lenses will fit on many different cameras some of which are Canon, Sony, Panasonic etc. Panasonic and Olympus M/43 lenses will only work on the M/43 cameras.

    4. Resale-ability: Nikon/Nikkor lenses have a broader demographic due to the flexibility of the mount itself and also due to the reputation of the Nikon/Nikkor brand of lenses which is outstanding.

    I do agree with you though that the Panasonic lenses are really super sharp wide open and have better coatings then the older Nikon lenses. I also think that the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 are great lenses due to the OIS and super sharp resolution, but other then those 2 lenses I would not invest in any other M4/3 lenses. Here is a quick video that I shot to illustrate how sharp the Tokina 28-70 is wide open in comparison to the Panny 20mm, keep in mind that the Tokina was attached to a cheap Mitakon speed booster and it is still really sharp in the center.

  • @BurnetRhoades Great video and great thoughts. I've seen some really nice footage from people using Panny glass but it only works when the context is specifically modern. If a film is going for classical narrative/emotional themes, you need glass that has that personality/emotional character built into how it renders images.

    Now I need to go back and watch Citizen Kane and see whats happening with deep focus that works with narrative. Never enough time, but that's a good thing.

  • @BurnetRhaodes Great video, fascinating that even at the highest levels of Hollywood they still experiment and find out surprising things with their gear. Btw, I'm thinking of bidding on this, anyone know if it covers the Pocketcam sensor? ;) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooke-S4-HD-Cine-8-46mm-T1-7-B4-Mount-Lens-Used-/130439722954?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

  • @AdamT clinical sharpness isn't an attractive feature to folks who like their Nikons. The Pany glass, while sharp, is flavorless. Its aim is to pass light through as if passing through air. It's a noble effort of engineering I guess but the best glass sees better than how your own eye sees the same light and not because it's sharper.

    This reminds me of a recent vid posted by Shane Hurlbut comparing Leica Summilux C to Cooke S4. Nothing wrong with the Leica at all...until you see the same scene and the same light with the softer Cooke lenses. "The Cooke Look" is obvious even through the Youtube filter and this is kinda how I look at Pany lenses versus my Nikkor. They're sharp, they're convenient, but they're flat.

  • Woah..I'll take your Canon glass :-)....FDs are hands down my favourite glass I've ever used.

  • @AdamT I've only been using an old Nikkor-O 35mm f2. Contrast is good image quality is nice and filmic. I don't spend time shooting bushes, streams, an rez charts. In real world shooting, the aesthetic of the glass is excellent. I feel similarly about my SMC Pentax 50mm 1.4. I'm less crazy about Canon FD glass and plan to dump mine since I don't use it. The pocketcam is a filmmaking camera, that demands manual focus. Period. I've got Panny and Oly electronic glass as well, but we're talking about a filmmaking camera here.

  • Sorry guys, but for the most part those old Nikon lenses are NOT as good optically as the better Panasonic lenses. In fact they are quite inferior even after the Panny lenses are corrected for distortion. The Nikon lenses may look more "natural" or "cinematic" simply because they aren't as sharp and have lower contrast. Most of those older lenses are lousy wide open and have subpar coatings relative to Lumix or Olympus MFT lenses.

    Of course a true manual focus lens has one major advantages for video over any by-wire lens ... unless you want AF....

  • I prefer Nikon lenses, I have the 20mm 1.7 and the 14mm 2.5, I really dont care for these lenses. IMO they are to small and actually have a lot of distortion that the GH2 corrects. The other problem is if you need to rack focus at specific points with a follow focus! good luck with that... I will probably end up selling both lenses and purchase the Sigma 18-35 1.8. I already have a Tokina 28-70 2.6 and a Nikkor 80-200 2.8. So this should cover me with the zoom lenses. I dont use this camera for stills only for video, so if you take stills with the GH2 then the Panasonic lenses make sense. Other wise my vote is 100% Nikon lenses.

  • @Xenocide38 @CFreak Thanks, that's helpful to know.

    @brianl They seem to sell somewhere in the $125-200 range, used. I'm trying to find one for under $150.

  • @Xenocide38 Which speedbooster are you using?

    Anyone know the approximate ebay pricing for the older 24mm Nikon 2.8?

  • I use both:

    Where visual style isn't the 1st priority (ex: doc or events, with hand held/run & gun): Electronic MFT lenses.

    Where it a priority (Interviews, Narrative, Music video, Commercials, etc.): The widest, fastest lenses (Usually Nikkor AIS, I invested long, long ago in the analog era) I can get. I haven't invested in the MB SB yet.

    I also own some C mount lenses (ditto on the investment side) , some cover MFT, and provide an interesting look.

    Note: With manual glass wide open you really, really, need focus confirmation. peaking in camera, on a monitor or the GH2 magnification feature (which doesn't work while recording). This is the single biggest reason I am looking to upgrade from the GH2.