Personal View site logo
Digital Bolex raw camera, no longer made
  • 1130 Replies sorted by
  • I think it's probably more common than you may realize for startups to dig into the founders' pockets to recapitalize. Their only obligation to the KS is to deliver the cameras, right? (And to deliver whatever preorders they're taking money for.) I see your concern about borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, but in fact, it's not a closed system. They are likely making a profit on the new orders that would help them catch up and beyond that is the possibility of additional funding once they bootstrap themselves into a position where they're actually delivering product...especially if the camera turns out to be any good.

    Anyway, I've already talked about it more than I care about it for some reason. I'm impressed that they're shipping units. Good for them. Who knows what the future will bring.

  • If they only make a few cams they might be worth buying as a collector's item

  • I'd never consider ordering anything from a group until after they ship all the initial units sold from their Kickstarter funding.

  • Bloom's starting to get some footage out there:

  • Re the Phillip Bloom video above. He posted .....>"and hand held is a piece of cake. You don’t actually need a rig with this camera unless you go down the heavier lens route or mount external batteries".... Surprisingly a really nice form factor. Especially with the grip, it’s a lovely handheld camera"

    And then shot the entire video review on a tripod with 25mm and 12 mm lens.... Umm, I guess we'll see some HH another time.

    Overall, I like the image from it, colours are pleasing and it handles the fast moving merrygoround motion ok.

  • @derek - the reds look nice, some of the other colors, not so much.

  • A great handheld form factor is what I was hoping for from tthis camera. How about some handheld footage, now?

  • Handheld will probably be in his full review soon. He couldn't upload everything he shot, but it might be in some of the DNG's he has linked for download.

  • I don't think you can judge the camera in a rainstorm, but the "Rain City" vid is certainly average at best. There is a pronounced lack of depth to the image; it looks flat. Hope to see something better when the sun pops out.

  • well, Bloom did say he graded it with the flat look of BlackMagic film, but good point.

  • I think what we need at this point is some actual comparison footage, not grey, clumpy images. Now that PB has the cam, I expect he will shoot some side by side with the usual suspects. I find it very odd that he released the preliminary footage that he did, doesn't really seem fair to the bolex, shooting towards a window or in the rain. Anyway I think we will see some proper footage shortly.

  • I like how this looks. I'm afraid that judging by the tests we've seen by now, dynamic range is not the strongest point of Digital Hipster, but color rendering is great, and motion is very nice, e.g. that carousel spinning. Sharpness and details look pleasing, these lenses used obviously have some character. I don't know what would happen if someone would finally crush blacks, would it all fall apart? Where's this pro mist coming from, is it the lens, or it is just how it looks, or grading maybe?

  • According to this guy, it takes a lot grading before anything falls apart:

  • There is a lot of room on the body of this cam--they could put in a useable screen, the screen that it has now isn't useable for video previews, and they could also leverage the alloy body with a heat pipe to get rid of the fans.

    A reasonably sized 16x9 screen could be fitted to one of the sides, and then have a swivel to fold out. And the reason this is important is that as it stands now, if you are using it handheld you need an external monitor, which then defeats the purpose of having the cam on a grip.

    If you think about the design as a sort of a "computer on a stick", then the parts could be upgraded, just like you can re-use a computer case. I think this would be the strong selling point--one could upgrade the screen to a 16x9 OLED, and the sensor could be upgraded for example to the new Panasonic 4K sensor.

    The camera needs a sensor that works at least up to 1600 ISO to be competitive. Then down the line, any parts of the cam could be re-upgraded.

    A four channel breakout cable for audio would be a real pro upgrade for the audio as well.

    Ideally, each part would clip in, just like a SATA drive.

  • I agree with you @DrDave. I'll be using a SmallHD EVF with this cam... still, lovely footage so far.

  • @DrDave

    EVF or small monitor won't impede handheld. It's a cinema camera, external monitoring is essential for pro/cine use anyway and it would be silly to build the solution into the camera. Let the user decide how/where/what they want for monitoring.

  • @Luekio it would be more "silly" to A. Try to use a camera with a tiny screen. B. Add a whole extra rig if you don't need it C. Waste all of that surface area on the cam.

    This is supposedly an open source cam. Instead of defending the problems with the cam, why not just improve it? Add a real screen, with peaking for overs and focusing, false color, and so on. No serious camera comes with a tiny screen, and, in fact, no serious phone would have screen like that. Screens are cheap now, and the Bolex should have a decent screen. Just convert the design to modular and offer snap in upgrades.

    "external monitoring is essential for pro/cine use" Well, I'm a pro and I don't always use external monitoring. When I hook up twelve cams I don't hook up twelve external monitors, especially in tight spots, I use three or four. And most of the pro I know really appreciate having a good screen on their cam and are really annoyed by screens where I can't see stuff. And handheld, running down the street, I don't want an external monitor, Nope, don't want it. I don't want to bump into a hot dog truck either because I didn't see it on the screen.

    If they were to offer a decent screen on the cam, would you turn it down?

  • @DrDave Yes I would turn it down, since it would cost a lot more and would not be as flexible as adding on the correct type of monitoring for the shot. I'd buy the cheaper "regular screen" version and just use proper monitoring gear and set it up for ideal handheld/tripod/slider/dolly rig as needed. On body screens might be okay for casual stuff but not much else.

    I think you are confusing this with dslr form, but it's a cinema camera. Just buy an evf or monitor.

  • It's a cinema camera - from what era, exactly?

    That's sarcasm, of course... because the form factor - whether one likes it or not - was clearly an homage to another camera, with little regards to modern functionality. DB picked up a camera from the last century, thought it looked hip & nostalgic, and said to themselves "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could cram a digital board in here? Sort of like that weapon from Star Trek, that shoots video instead of phase-modulated particles."

    It was more important to have that silly crank on the side than a decent screen? As much as I dislike the BMCC enclosure, this one's worse...

    @DrDave: "No serious camera comes with a tiny screen, and, in fact, no serious phone would have screen like that." - - perfectly stated.

  • @thorn @DrDave: "No serious camera comes with a tiny screen, and, in fact, no serious phone would have screen like that." - - perfectly stated.

    like the Red or Alexa? I guess they are not serious :P

  • Better to have no screen at all, than use some repurposed GameBoy color screens.

  • @luekio, it would not cost more, it would cost less. That's the way pricing works, if you buy the screen later the price goes down. So, OK, it would cost less, it would be a better camera, the company would be less likely to go out of business, plus you could upgrade it in the future and it would be better for the environment. Still turn it down?

    Re: confused...ummm...Cinema Camera.... the Canon Cinema Camera has an EVF in addition to a 4 inch screen, and also has Photo Recording Mode, Waveform Monitor (Standard and RGB Component), Vectorscope, Exposure/Focus Aids, Peaking (2 types), Zebra Pattern, Magnify, Edge Monitor Focus Assist, Black and White Mode.

    So why are all these things in the Canon? Because it is a real Cinema camera with features that Pros need. And, because it has the nice screen and EVF, you can actually use these features on the camera. It does not, of course have a (squeaky) crank.

    And BTW, if the cam doesn't need a screen because you should use an external monitor, by this logic it doesn't need audio because guess what? Pros use external audio, and the built in audio is only 2 channels.

    Plus, you cannot touch/pull/lock focus on an external monitor. At least not yet. And touch to focus, pull focus, focus lock and focus follow are features I use every single day on my camcorders

    What I'm saying is, wouldn't it be better to make the whole camera modular? Take the concept, and make it great. Upgradable. Plus, I mean, it needs a screen. Seriously. Just make a snap-in port on the side of the cam for an RV screen at a minimum.

  • @DrDave: you sure getting worked up about this. This camera is already modular in that you can upgrade it anyway you want just add your own EVF and or monitor and connect it to the HDMI port. You choose what works for you at whatever price point you prefer, just like most pro cams out there. I don't think your going to find any manual lenses for the DB that you could drive focus via touch screen, that would be handy and maybe a firmware upgrade for the hand crank.

  • @DrDave The cameras you are talking about are camcorders, of course they have an evf... they also and shoot compressed, and cost how much? LOL keep digging.

    D16 is not a camcorder :P