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Atomos Vs the Blackmagic Hyperdeck recording and monitoring possibilities?
  • Hey Everyone according to what i have researched so far, Atomos looks like a good deal due to the screen res i prefer to go with the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle Plus a monitor such as Marshalls V-LCD70XP-HDMIPT with loop through HDMI, So do you guys think Canon DSLR’s T2i, 5DMII or 7D (HDMI) output makes it possible to record the OUTPUT from the Camera to the Marshall (Which fixes the DSLR ratio Adjustment) and then take that output using the HDMI loop through (from Marshall) to the blackmagic’s Hyperdeck Shuttle or the Atomos Ninja so that i can record with the adjusted ratio?.
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  • Additionally Atomos has only HDMI in and they dont recommend using DSLRs for recording. The Blackmagic Hyperdeck has “loop through” through HDMI out and SDI out both working simultaneously, although they haven’t mentioned in the specs for HDMI loop through, But i think it should work. For the price comparison and pro and cons check this link: http://www.nanofunk.net/raw-video-for-dslr-with-magic-lantern-and-black-magic-hyperdeck-shuttle-vs-atomos-ninja-5d-mkii-550d-rebels/
    Im still trying to figure out which is the cheaper option all around. The Canon DSLR's HDMI outputs only 4:2:0 8-bit uncompressed HDMI. (Not clean signal, with Magic Lantern. Yes.) Another thing if anyone is wondering HDMI, by design, does not carry timecode. It was never designed for that. More research yet to be done....Any views...?
  • Well there are many issues with recording HDMI from a Canon I'm afraid. Only the 7D outputs HD (the others output 480) but the 7D on the other hand cannot be hacked and can as such not output a clean signal! The 7D might be used for HDMI recording at 2.35:1 and possibly at 1.85:1. The only one that can output a clean signal is the GH2, but there are other issues there, as you might know.
  • According to magic Lantern "http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/HDMI_Output" The HDMI output from the Canon HDMI is limited to 1620x1080 (3:2) while the camera is not recording, thats why you get black bars on left and right, my idea was to use the Marshall monitor which fixes the output ratio and take that output from Marshall Monitor to Hyperdeck or Atomos. Marshall Monitor has a feature to fix ratio from HDMI signals in Canon, also available in SmallHD range of monitors but they have a SDI loop through version. So still i dont know whether this will work cause i dont have these monitors, actually considering to buy once all the doubts are cleared...
  • Actually this won't work either. Both of them have a loop-throuh, not a monitor out (basically the signal sent out is sent BEFORE the signal). The other issue is that if it were to scale up, you'd lose resolution, so the resolution would be around 1620x910 anyway. Then you'd get better result from filming a 7D while recording and then scaling that...

    So in short, recording HDMI from a Canon isn't possible in a good way...
  • Oh... the output is sent "the same signal" as what is coming from the camera through Loop-through in which the ratio is not the fixed..In other words i should be looking for the monitors' out(fixed ratio) which should not be a loop through....Oh Darn..:) Thanks Gabel for clearing it out..well i guess i should keep finding someother way....Let me find out...
  • Exactly. The other issue is that as I said, the ratio fix is useless anyway. You won't gain any resolution (after all the only thing the monitor is doing is scaling up the picture), which is exactly the same you'd do in post-production.
  • I think that for today's standard the actual Canon line is a dead end for a video centric dslr use. Nothing has changed from the 5d days and now it shows. They have the lowest resolution, worst moire/aliasing, monitoring, etc. etc. and the list goes on. On September 2011 the best solution is either the gh2 or the new Sony line. My favorite is the gh2, for now nothing beats it in terms of resolution, aliasing/moire etc etc With the hack you can get even better result approaching full uncompressed hdmi signal. It seems that Vitaliy is working on hacking the hdmi. If you want the full S35 size sensor then the new Sony line (Nex-5n for now) is a better choice than the Canon, again better resolution, less moire/aliasing etc. It has some innovation also as it has peaking, great OVF for monitoring. The rolling shutter also seems to be better.

    In the end it seems that it is better to invest in all of the supporting gear today. That is supporting rig, monitor, follow focus etc. For lens you can buy some Canon fd if you are staying into the small sensor camera. If you want to invest eventually into the full frame one, you can either invest into a set of vintage Nikon primes. For new you can buy a set of Samyang lenses which start from the 7,14,24,35 and 85mm lens for quality and affordability (No 50mm for now but you have lots of other choices at this focal lenght and beyond 85mm from other manufacturers). Now in one month Canon could release a 5dmark 3 with much better specification like 422, 10 bit, etc. that could put it back in contention. But don't fool yourself, for now Canon which was the standard is clearly behind.

    p.s I am think that you have not bought any camera yet, because you speculate about the different Canon's. Another good thing is that the gh2 body is about $ 900 and the Sony about $ 600. So tomorrow should you could sell them for easily with less than $ 200 loss if something much better comes out from Canon.
  • @danyyyel Its kinda true about the Canon's standard at present, as of now I'm stuck now with my Canon 550D/T2i (using it to do experimentation of all sorts), will be looking at a newer camera after im done with this. Since all these hardships with canon's minor flaws i hope they will/can be fixed (closest is like Magic Lantern firmware solution) , I'm waiting too for the 5Dmark3 to see whether they will fix these issues that we are facing.. And yes it seems to invest in supporting gear, thats why i came to this site to find and build myself a custom DSLR rig. As you i have a Canon so i have like 3 lenses so far (50mm 1.8 Tamron 17-55mm 2.8 and a 18-135mm EFS), so going for another one like 4/3 will make my lens unusable. Also Im interested in the SONY's F3 and F35 cameras but sadly cannot afford them yet...We'll have to wait and see what's gonna be new....Meanwhile still finding a solution to record through the hdmi out from my Canon T2i....
  • @Gabel
    yeah your right same in post, but wouldnt it be better to use a hardware scaler/converter to upscale the input and then record? Anyways i found some info about The Blackmagics Hyperdeck, it uses an HDMI specs of 1.3 which might not work with the T2i or any other Canon DSLR's HDMI output...thats what i heard Can you confirm...Still could'nt find a hyperdeck user with a Canon T2i. In my opinion if i were to select i would lean towards Atomos considering the space and realibility issues. The TV logic monitor VFM-056WP has a built in converter which fixes DSLR ratio and converts the signal to an SDI but only to 720p. If you come across any solution to record uncompressed signal let me know..
  • Atomos have the Samurai coming out this month - with SDI and automatic pulldown.