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Sony A7 and A7r , FF gems, like GH3 but FF
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  • I am starting to think that a full frame GH5 wouldn't be such a bad option. It could always use the crop mode for legacy m4/3s lenses and they could sell us a bunch of new glass for full frame photos and videos.

    I simply cannot believe that they crammed a full frame sensor into that small body. That is just too cool.

  • despite the moire problem, it seems the aliasing is well controlled. considering video my conclusion for now is: if you have the 5d mark iii keep it, if you do not have and want or need a full frame go for the a7.

  • I would say, from that last sample video, there is huge difference between A7 and A7r in terms of video quality (that first ISO3200 scene looks pretty clean except for some moire on the tyres). While both clearly show moire, the A7r is definitely superior on sharpness and artifacts are not as clearly visible as with the A7. Seems like that 24mpx sensor is just not suited for video, like in the VG900, A99, RX1... But the 36mpx one behaves better.

  • That test video looks pretty bad. Loads of moire and aliasing and seems the almost Sony trademark blotchy low light video noise is still present on these.

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  • Xenogears, do you day this because the BlackMagics use ProRes or because of the processing they do prior to encoding on the cards?

    This is the stuff that I am still learning, and yes struggling with. When I look at footage, what is the result of poor camera/shooting technique, what is less than stellar processing and finally what is weak codec

  • Technical Marketing Manager for Sony Europe’s Digital Imaging division, Ben Pulling, has had his hands on the A7 camera and reported to us that: the “Focus magnifier CAN be used while recording video”

    Thing I do not understand is why making big thing out of it. As most probably it works only on internal monitor and, may be, on EVF (as they are of lower resolution).

    Because otherwise it can mean that it reads whole frame, but in this case we won't see such moire as we see now.

  • @Irondiver If you're planing greenscreen shots, the best alternative is one of the Blackmagic cameras.

  • Been there, I bought the TM700 loved it, 60P was smooth, but I wanted shallower depth of field without having to use adapters (remember Letus) Sold it and bought the gf2 when the hack was developed. Now I am looking for another step up, I am not in any particular hurry, still learning. I was interested in the BMC pocket, but 3x crop, no evf, no tilt screen. Now the videos samples that I have seen, are dreamy. It's selling point is it's image and portability, but my gf2 can do great things outside and even with evf attached can fit in my cargo pocket or man bag.

    The Panny GH3 has many of the things the BMCp doesn't have, and to be honest the footage that I have seen from GH2/GH3 still leave me speechless. But I would like to have the higher bitrate of ProRes HQ for this greenscreen stuff on this Steam/Diesel Punk shorts I am developing. I know that with clean HDMI the Atomos Ninja can give good ProRes.

    Now ( as I try to bring this tangent back on topic) Sony Releases the A7, looks very promising. First off I am fairly brand neutral all these things are just tool ( I stuck with nikon because it says a lot that even even the most modern dslr can be fitted out with a 40 year old lens). The A7 offers high quality stills, tiltable lcd, quality evf, etc. But the new twist is FF, I was fascinated.

    Question ( yes there is a question in all this sermonizing, sorry) These sample test footage, what little there is, Is it all pre-production? Is there hope that some of this aliasing could be controlled before shipping day?

    If I were still a paid Pro, I might still consider it for a full frame still camera, loud shutter and all. I'll continue to read what people post here and follow along. In the meantime continue to work on the script and shooting techniques.

  • If you don't want moiree and aliasing, get a TM700 or one of the Pro CMOS Canon camcorders. Unfortunately, most manufacturers really don't care whether lines are straight or curved or staircase.

  • The moire seen in the video, is it typical of sony based chips? Is it far worse than seen on say Panny GH3 or BMCC Pocket? The reason I asked is that I am currently working (playing with my hacked GF2. It is more than sufficient for learning, my upgrade path will either be a Pocket Cinema or GH3. For reasons that Vitaliy mentioned I didn't want to go FF (EVF and flange distance etc). Size didn't matter to me before as professional Photog years back I carried Nikon F3 and F4 and several more pounds of glass. But now smaller is fine.

    Along come Sony offering something that's looks quite reasonable. In my heart I love FF, a 50mm is a 50mm. But I'll stay with MFT if video quality is arguably better. I am partial to GH3 but want the ProRes of BMC Pocket. With GH3 going down in price, a Atomos Ninja can fix that.

  • lots of moire in A7:

  • Guys can we keep a bit of perspective here? Why is it every fucking STILLS camera that gets a release have to be judged solely on its video mode???

    because most of the members here shoot videos :-)

    Besides why you would ever want to use a a7 for filmmaking work/videowork is beyond me. There are plenty of better options available.

    Such as? What exactly are better options among FF cameras? With good EVF, small flange distance?

  • Guys can we keep a bit of perspective here? Why is it every fucking STILLS camera that gets a release have to be judged solely on its video mode??? Its sure smells of reid mentality. Its really becoming tiresome to read these comments on every new photocentric camera release.

    Besides why you would ever want to use a a7 for filmmaking work/videowork is beyond me. There are plenty of better options available. As a full frame photography camera that you can use legacy glass on? Its pretty awesome.

  • I felt the same way with the Sony a99 in regards to initial IQ, then I did a week-long review and was convinced that the images are up to par w/ the Canikon full-frames. I'm going to review the a7/a7R in a couple of weeks when I go to Nashville w/ Sony for one week.

    Any suggestions/requests?

  • HDMI out will not resolve moire issues.

  • IQ so disappointing. Has there been any 422 hdmi capture released anywhere?

    Crazy how in touch the marketing has been with these cameras. That plus such a spot on feature-set made me feel like we were finally gonna get what we've been asking for. Then poop image quality. :( Insane!!

    Anyone else holding out hope for the HDMI out?

  • @Brian202020: Oh. That you meant. Sorry. Misunderstood - yes. (Btw.: I always thought that it´s scaling it down. Good to know it´s not. Thx for the info.)

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev: Sorry for a little bit off topic ^^.

  • @Brian202020

    How it is all related to A7 topic? Especially considering that it is quite inaccurate.

    It uses a process called pixel binning. The GH2 and GH3 sensors are not capable of a steady 60 fps which would be required for what you are saying.

    This is quite inaccurate words. As pixel binning is.. scaling. Just simple variation of one. On GH2 it is done using on sensor logic as far as I know. As it is clear from tests GH3 also uses similar technique, but some moire can come from changed sensor resolution and some different logic.

    If you carefully look at the description, it seems that Sony is using similar technique as they tell about some special preprocessing stage in main LSI. And with big probability it is.. pixel binning on raw stage. :-)

  • @Tscheckoff

    You are misunderstanding me. No they do not. It uses a process called pixel binning. The GH2 and GH3 sensors are not capable of a steady 60 fps which would be required for what you are saying.