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Windmotion - upsampling to 4:4:4
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  • @joethepro Sorry, I really do not have any idea about compatibility with windmotion. But I simply meant to say that I understand some of windmotion is just avisynth and there already exists avisynth GUI. So maybe not helpful but I wanted to at least bring it into topic.

  • @Manicd Huh. Do you have a screenshot of how it incorporates the windmotion stuff?

  • @joethepro There is already a GUI for avisynth so I believe your proof of concept wouldn't be necessary although I can honestly say I know nothing about computer programming or coding.

  • @rean Well, looks like you took my comments a little more seriously than you should have. I understand your position. Ive spent about 6 hours so far coming up with a proof of concept for a GUI. Im still trying to figure out how to actually execute the batch files on the button clicks, as this gui is built from node webkit so that I could use web development tools (my area of experience). But there is the drawback that web development tools typically dont let you execute files on the clients machine for safety reasons, so Im having a hard time trying to actually run each script on click. You can view them though, and I hope to have them editable soon as well.

    This example is from clicking view on the Edit 01. Import.bat line. No need to get all upset, Im willing to stand behind my request and help out if I can.

    windmotion_gui_POC.jpg
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  • I know that google translate is not perfect between any language but it is a free starting point. I think it's fine if you want to write the instructions and work process explanation in only russian. Although it would help to explain everything twice using different words. This way after translating the reader has better understanding, for any language. I'm also sure you would find someone willing to translate from russian to english.

    Even when people share the same language there is communication issues. So in the end, just try to explain the best you can and you will be fine.

    I do not have great english skills but I would be willing to do simple editing of the documentation/instructions for english use.

  • @spacewig ok, thanks. @Manicd great idea, thanks. Version 2 will be simplier to understand also extensible. So I ready to create any detailed documentation and video examples. One problem is in my English knowledge, but I think it is not a big problem.

    Can you advise how to deal with this? Are you satisfied, if the video is done in Russian, and too much of the documentation in Russian? Perhaps we will find those who agree to translate it into other languages. I do not like this earlier because the program before changing very quickly, and any changes would be expensive cost for documentation.

  • @joethepro your simple GUI suggestion is not for pro needs. It will be a very simple solution for some cases but not for all.

    It is not a selection of many commented cases. Each case needs visual feedback. You should know that any script reloading takes up to 2-10 seconds per change so it is useless to create any GUI and control. It is because script loading any precalculated data are building. This spents many time. Changing of this requires complete overwrite all plugins. Also some reloads may cause a crash, because Avisynth architecture is very buggy, because there is a 32-bit memory limitations and hacking multithreading for not really multithreaded plugins. There is a 64-bit avisynth, but it is 2-5 times slower. Also many other things needs to be redesigned. I spent many days to get these issues to minimum, but cannot fix them all. Or it will be very slow that is useless for HD and 2K video.

    I really need a new internal architecture that may help with restorations. Unfortunately it is not possible to make also a plugin for another program. So I need 5-10 years to redesign anything to get it usable for realtime use without any feature loss.

    Also many cases require special masking and many of thinking what to do. Some cases require of change of filter order. Some cases were not possible in version 1, so I create version 2.

    Another key idea that does not allow me to create a simple proxy GUI - it is too hard to make changes. Many of filters are not stable and change very faster. I need to change every plugin GUI code for every plugin change. It is very simple but time-spent task process. I need to change my life to support the software. It is possible only for a fulltime programming. But the program is unprofitable for me.

    In fact, currenty it does not give the opportunity to live for one month. I need to feed my family. I am not from a rich family tycoons who can afford that. So that's what you want, requires significant investments. Implementation is a lot of money into this project promises to problems with patents. So to the project was alive and so what you want, here it is necessary to invest a lot of money. Personally, my budget does not allow a hundredth part of it.

    Editing of filter flow in a text editor and clicking to batch files is a great compromise, that suits me. Of course, some operations very slow in this design, but fortunately it is possible in any video editor - e.g. a color correction. So I will not ready to change the current architecture in a near future.

    So, batch scripts and text editing will exists before I redesign internal core that is suits me. If you personally do not want to invest in the project a lot of money that would feed me and allowed to hire expensive DSP programmers and lawyers, please do not write me about GUI.

  • Perhaps give people an example of simple step by step complete work flow process. And explain what each setting file does and how to change the parameters. It took me 1 hour to fiqure out how to import video, resize to 4k, and denoise.

    There is almost zero explanation after the first steps of importing video. You could just simply explain that to enable a option when there is a few options, you must uncomment the option you want. For example to resize you remove the # from infront of the resize you want.

  • @rean Thanks for the reply. I hope you didnt take my GUI request as an insult! I know what it takes to make GUIs, Ive helped built one myself (in Borland C++, though). I think your 5 year estimation is a bit dramatic, really. I didnt mean that it had to be fancy, just a bare-bones interface where you could group filters together with some checkboxes or select a preset, and then run them all with another click, etc. Simple things like that which would make for a much smoother UI experience. I know even a simple GUI still takes time, and I understand this is not your priority. Im glad that what you currently have is working well for your users, and I can appreciate the achievement you have made.

    And yes, I was unaware that all the batch files were commented out. An odd choice, if Im honest. Maybe Ill try again someday. :)

  • @rean I will email you this weekend with some suggestions for new version. I really like Wndmotion and only stopped using it because I now only film with BMPCC but if we can find a way to include BMPCC file support I will definitely start using again.

  • I understand that most users will fully uninstall the software after 1 minute because see many clicks required. And if cannot find any faders and knobs. Some of them may think that this software is created by monkey and it is very bad designed. :-)

    But this is the most optimized software for pro needs. Every design solution is a big compromise between quality, speed, visibility of video issues, batch processing needs and the software core architecture used. Sorry, my English knowledge and existing software engine cannot give me a solution to help new users.

  • @joethepro Filters are commented by default. So you have no changes. No changes = no any result. I should point new users to this key.

    Video is darken because there is one filter enabled—a level filter that converts Y channel brightness range for MTS files (16-255) to the standard TV levels: 16-235. You can, of course, correct any values. Output frame size can be changed using Crop and Resize filters.

    And, yes, we must click probably every of all steps and uncomment filters, change default values to get high quality results. There is no better solution. For used cameras you can create own Avsi.bat file version to get new default preset. I have some versions for my cameras and different lighting conditions. Please note: many pro Avisynth users write scripts from scratch in text editor. I give you the fastest solution possible with the existing Avisynth software.

    GUI will not be implemented soon. To make GUI I must fully recreate a software engine with 1000s lines of assembler and other code that currently created in the existing Avisynth engine within last years. Will you wait for 5-10 years? I cannot wait this and spent my life for GUI. I have results now, not in the future. Learning is the key.

  • @rean I feel like I missed something. I ran pretty much every step (definitely every noise, color, denoise, sharp, etc step) and made a 10 bit prores output file. I made all the settings changes in the readme, notably the one about video levels to not change. Yet the output video file looks exactly the same as the original (no cleaner or sharper), just darker, like it changed the levels or something. I also didnt see any setting for output size, as it output a 1080p file.

    This is quite a rough system, having to click every one of the dozens of steps! Hopefully a GUI will be implemented soon!

  • @joethepro denoise is better in pro edition. But I use free denoise filter most time—it is very fast and good quality compromise. Upsample works in any edition - it is available with a help of a basic combination of small level denoise and other filters—to remove edge artifacts (dehalo and antialiasing gives most of the upsample magic). It is very basic in free edition.

  • Wow, this sounds amazing. I think Ill download the free version tonight and try it out. Are the denoising and color upsampling in the free version limited compared to the pay version?

  • Hello, friends. After these 1.5 yeas we have many changes in the industry. Windmotion also keeps new trends. I am able to announce the second major version of the program. It will be ready soon.

    The old version was a big breakthrough in the technological sense. But it was not very convenient to work with other programs. Also, I have collected a lot of feedback from users and my own experience with the program made me sit down to research and compilers to change everything. I'm doing a new version of the end of last year. Yes, it is very slow progress, and I do not have more time. I use as many time I can. I am working many hours per days 7 days a work. So, now I announce good news.

    1. We can create video projects faster. I changed the workflow scheme, so you can make very fast proxy files first, then, after final project is ready with these files - to enhance only used files and change proxy files to the finish quality videos. And this may be very long process- days of rendering for very high end cinematographic quality you can get using your fast computer. So it is faster and quality oriented.

    2. I spent many days of research to create the most compatible video file format. Not all encoding settings and file formats are used by modern video editors. Also there are too many technical problems to get most quality using existing open source tools. New version uses new file formats and new encoding settings those are compatible with QT and GPU decoding. Also we have no color space problems now (OMG, ffmpeg code is not for pro needs, but I can get the most usable also fast solution). My tests allow now use Windmotion resulted files in Blackmagic Fusion and Resolve in realtime for 1920x1080 4:2:2 50p. And it is possible for most possible quality I can get experimenting with encoding settings.

    3. We can divide video editing to many phases and repeat them many times. Now there is no need to keep all processing for good quality source. If you do not want to make denoise - it is not required now. Also you can change the processing order. And even to repeat any step.

    4. We have updated algorithms. They are 50% faster and also give us better quality. Also I have now very quality mosquito noise fix filters and other MPEG artifacts restorations. So we ready to move quality limit up to a 200 megabit equivalent now.

    5. Windmotion now supports 3D Lut files. So you can create a production quality color inside the program. Also most critical code is now native code optimized and in a 32bit floating point calculations.

    6. Now the program has two packages - a GPL stuff pack and scripts itself. So there is no requirements to download very huge binary packages for every change. It is safe to update new version for low bandwidth internet. Also this gives me a freedom to give you updates faster.

    7. Many old plugins now deleted. I keep only really needed and very high quality ones. Also I made my own plugins in binary code.

    8. Many small bugs were fixed. Unfortunately there were some small issues with bt.601/bt.709. Some unwanted very small and invisible for most users colorshift and noise artifacts is now fixed. But I personally create Windmotion for the most possible and the fastest solution I can even see. Now my eyes are so trained that I see more problems in the videos, so now I can report that I have been able to achieve such a compromise, which suits me. The vast majority of people do not see one percent of that can be fixed with new version.

    The new version will be ready for beta test next month. PS. It will be fully compatible with free Blackmagicdesign software.

    I ask you to help me with ideas for new release. What is bad for you in Windmotion 1.x and what must be changed first.

  • @rean. For import use. I think your windmotion has very impressive denoise, upsampling and sharpening which is useful for any 1080p source. I don't think you should discount this.

  • @spacewig for import or export? I think, if you have a quality source from pro camera, you do not need any improvement. Windmotion is for poor source. Probably you search for a tool that converts your source for pro use? I am not in this professional area, so cannot create a tool for this area.

  • @rean. Will this work with cinema dng or prores files?

  • 1.1.0 Update is available.

  • @blackspot Hello

    I used same settings that were used on "eyelashes" example

    These settings are for very noised source. You can increase a processing speed and a stability by decreasing count of denoise frames to 1 or 2. Daylight footages do not require too much denoise.

    About sharp: Windmotion Pro has very sensitive subpixel sharp. The first time it seems cool, but be conservative, especially in footages with faces.

  • Hello. Here is my first test with Windmotion Pro. I used same settings that were used on "eyelashes" example. I upscaled only to 2.88K so there is propably too much sharpening. (I couldn't make 4K upscale work because of insufficient memory with 32bit-avisynth) Im sure the setting could be optimize a lot more for 2.88K upres.

    What do you think? is it worth it?

  • @rean

    Keep up great work.

  • @darklight hello. What kind of understanding you would like to see in the video? I can make it after a big video project I currently creating. But, please note, I cannot speak English, so this example will be silent.

  • Could you please do a video tutorial on how to use the program. I downloaded it and read your instructions but it is still not clear to me how to make the program do the things I want.