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Driftwood Cluster X series 3:│moon T7│ЅріzZ T6│Nebula T7│Drewnet T9│
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  • @driftwood

    Would it be possible to get 24, 29.97 and 59.94 in one patch? Or are they tied together somehow so that if we get the normal 29.97, we also have to take 23.976?

    Because I'm loving this exact 24 thing. The motion just looks sooooo much better. But the issue is that Blu-ray and broadcast can handle 24 exact, whereas they both need the oddball 29.97 and 59.94 for the video look, they don't do 30 and 60 exact. (Meaning putting them on disk will invoke a small 'conversion' of sorts.)

  • Excellent. Thankyou Katsu @bkmcwd

  • Hi Nick,

    I will do tuning Spizz tomorrow. :-)

  • Cluster X DrewNET T9 1080/24 screengrab example and elecard quantisation evaluation - amazing at this detail. Third pic: motion vectors going to a static at 720p50 DREWnet. Note i frames go huge! in Cluster X as the image comes to a standstill. With movement b frames become larger and i/p frames naturally compensate in size to the bitrate.

    DrewNET T9 1080-24.png
    1924 x 1080 - 3M
    drewnet t9 quant 7-11 at this detail.png
    1333 x 924 - 129K
    DREWnet 720p50 b frame motion vectors in action.png
    1686 x 1034 - 2M
  • @producer @all. Hang on, I'm going to now include both versions in the link on page 1 in one zip file. One is labelled moon T7 24fps etc (setd) the other moon T7 23.976 (sete). ok.

  • I can test the T7b and T7c too, but can't find them, where are their links?

  • Guys, if you look at the original moon T7 I also gave you 30 FPS and 60 FPS and of course 24FPS, moon T7b/c goes back to 29.97, 59.94 as well as 23.976.

    So do you guys want both as trial tests?

  • So I made the Blu-ray...

    This is hands down the best, most film-like image I've ever seen from my camera. And I actually think the 24 fps has something to do with it.

    Watching film source, which is shot at exactly 24 fps, there is a smoothness to the motion that seems missing from video source, particularly with camera motion. If you watch a 23.976 video, there always seems to be a sort of shimmer in the details on pans and other camera movements, softening those details until the camera comes to rest, where they sharpen up again. Faster camera movement makes the shimmer more pronounced, but even with quite slow camera movement, it's still there to a degree.

    That high frequency shimmer is largely missing from film content, even with faster camera motion, and I've often wondered if the difference is that film uses 24 fps, and video uses 23.976 fps. Looking at this 24 fps video, I'm fairly well convinced that is exactly the issue.

    Once again, Nick, you are a god!

  • I wonder if Nick changed it in 7c.

  • T7c recorded at 23.9 for me

  • @GravitateMediaGroup My testing has been with the original T7 from the other thread. I have not tried 7b or 7c yet.

    What frame rate are you seeing reported?

  • @jim_simon is it 24 in 7a b and c? maybe it's one of the changes nick made to fix the "motion" issue

  • @thepalalias I went back and checked my other footage, including some recent Moon T5, and they all report 23.976. Moon T7 is the first I've ever seen report as exactly 24 in three different programs (now including VLC).

  • @driftwood whatever "motion" issues I was having I really don't see anymore, original clip or YouTube, both look pretty much the same, now all I get is just NORMAL 1/50 24p motion blur as expected when shooting handheld ; )

  • @Jim_Simon When you shoot with other settings and then Moon Trial 7 right after without changing any other variables, do some of them get reported differently than others? Or could they be getting interpreted that way across the board? Ditto for framerates for each in KMPlayer (or VLC).

  • @Jim_Simon I just tested moon trial 7c, and i'll have to agree with you. Quality is the best I"be seen out of the moon series. 1600iso looks really good. I'll make some better tests on the weekend. Thank you @driftwood Will be donating again soon!

  • I think I might have found the cadence weirdness. Moon Trial 7 seems to be recording at exactly 24 fps, not the expected 23.976. Both Premiere Pro and KMPlayer report this 24 fps frame rate. When I added that to a 23.976 sequence, I got the weirdness. When I watched the clip in KMPlayer, it looked fine. When I created a 24 fps sequence, it also looked fine in PP.

    So the question: Is this exact 24 fps by design? I believe Blu-ray can handle it, and film is usually at exactly 24, so this might be a good thing.

  • I shot my first tests of Moon Trial 7 today. I'm absolutely stunned!

    This is without a doubt the best, smoothest, cleanest, most organic looking footage I've ever seen come out of my camera. Nick, you are a god!

    Even at 1600 ISO, this is footage I could use without apology.

    My only complaint is the motion cadence seems to be a bit...odd. Even at 1/50 shutter. (And in my work, I do often need to go down to 1/25, so this is something that concerns me.) It's not quite as 'flowing' as I'd expect, there's almost a 'stuttery' look to the footage, like a frame is being skipped every now and then, or like the shutter was actually set to 1/1000. Frame by frame playback reveals no anomalies. It might possibly be my system, so I'm burning a Blu-ray, but Moon T5 footage showed no such cadence weirdness on the same system, so we'll see.

  • @driftwood but what is the real difference in video quality if both REDshift v1b and v1 have the same bitrate, i mean it has QP10 VS QP16, but what that gives in practical usage? disregarding incamera playback.

  • Its as stable as you stand.

  • @driftwood to be honest i didn't, is it stable :) ?

  • @jeffharriger

    the more I watch the footage the more I think it's fine now. I really think this setting doesn't play well with 1/40, and either whatever @Driftwood did made a huge difference, or 1/50. Only way to really know is to shoot some 7a footage at 1/50 and compare.

    @matt_gh2 cinema, and I believe -2

    currently uploading some 7c footage

  • Yeah like GMG said the "blur" is kind of like step-printed slo mo, not motion blur per se.

  • @GravitateMediaGroup The lens is Lumix 100-300mm... Didn't do any colour correction but the WB was set to 5200K

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