Yeah, I can see it. RED made a big splash, initially, in dramatic episodic TV but you see more and more Alexa being used in new shows even though it's a much more expensive camera. ProRes just drops right into a timeline, with or without expensive, dedicated hardware and still offers some stylistic possibilities (see: Hannibal).

I've noticed a change in the last season of SOUTHLAND, one of my favorite shows that was shot on RED (cancelled, so sad). They used to really push the look in ways that you needed a raw camera (or film) but something happened this last season (its last season). They pulled back to a much more conventional look with cheap, post filters, likely as a way of saving costs. IMDB is only current through season 3 as far as camera package goes but I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed they went to a non-raw form of shooting because on location in LA is already very expensive regardless of film, RED or DSLR. There are no discounts for what camera you're using or how small your crew might be.

edit: I see season 5 was an Epic show, doing some googling...makes the change in aesthetic all the more disappointing but still points to a cut-back in post perhaps. Anyway, not poo-poo'ing "raw" per se, but it is a far from universal application. I couldn't see using it for any sort of documentary filmmaking of people and personalities either, where you might shoot a hundred hours of footage. Nature documentaries, sure. Short films, sure.

Realistically, shooting an indie feature with a raw DSLR is going to be difficult for the indie shooter because they can't be like Steven Soderberg and buy a metric ton of CF cards and when a CF card is full that's treated like an exposed roll of film, never to be shot again, put in a vault for editorial. That's a lot of disk, and it's gotta be fast and secure, which means double or triple the space you actually intend to use and maybe forget about building it with stuff from BestBuy.

@BurnetRhoades my thoughts exactly - Red footage is the bane of post already, needing storage, time and dedicated hardware, and in the real world budgets are going South, daily (in the UK anyway) With no increase from Production managers in any of the above areas, i can't see RAW being utilised in mainstream TV in the near future without production re-thinking budgets. Offline budgets have been decimated and ingestion budgets haven't increased with the new codecs and storage requirements - leading to a bit of a dead end. In the end the camera operator doesn't decide the camera to use on a project the man with the £ does.

The ML manipulation of the Canon firmware is laudable but in real world terms I'm just wondering how useful this would be in the broadcast world - the hysteria surrounding it is a bit of a chuckler to be honest.

It's likely not useful at all for the broadcast world, raw shooting, until storage and processing and bandwidth are at such a level that compression and techniques involving time and space savings create more work rather than less.

Big budget episodic network television isn't going to be shooting raw as a standard. Shows like NBC's Hannibal and FOX's The Following are shot on the Alexa but to ProRes. They shoot hours of footage for every hour broadcast. The ML-raw paradigm has even less to offer broadcasters than a well integrated raw paradigm.

It's for amateur shooters and independent filmmakers who like and can handle being bleeding edge, a different state entirely than cutting edge.

The ML manipulation of the Canon firmware is laudable but in real world terms I'm just wondering how useful this would be in the broadcast world - the hysteria surrounding it is a bit of a chuckler to be honest.

@vicharris

5D RAW footage will be in the appropriate thread. This thread is about hopefully eventually getting RAW on the Panasonic camera's.

http://www.personal-view.com./talks/discussion/6823/raw-video-on-canon-5d-mark-3-and-other-cameras-using-liveview-framebuffer-#Item_263

@endotoxic

I agree with 8bit not stopping anyone from making great imagery. I will say it has on many occasions knowing a camera was 8bit forced me into shooting a certain way to limit banding as much as possible, which is limiting creativity. Also as a shooter I want the image delivered to the client to be as perfect as possible. This means 10bit or better with a log picture profile.

As for RAW being time consuming, it really isn't that bad. I've edited several RAW projects on my 2008 MacBook Pro. I'd say from ingest to final edit, it's at most a 15% increase in time over an H264 acquisition, and maybe a %30 increase in time over a ProRes acquisition. It's all about finding the most efficient workflow possible for the project.

@Brian202020 RAW is only more flexible, the image depends on you. Being 8bit does not stop you from making grate imagery. Yes it sucks on post cos its not so flexible. But what i know for a fact, today 2013 RAW does take you time, BIG TIME. Unless you have massive 3 racks of 16 core 1u servers and ultra raid tech on it. AVCHD is drag and drop. :)

@Vitaliy_Kiselev Even if you were to never successfully hack another camera, you've already made (and continue to make) monumental contributions to the filmmaking community, which is more than most people can say.

@stonebat Lol. We will always need hacks for big company's.

I'm probably risking a ban here, but I don't think there will be anything meaningful to come from VK anymore. I have a feeling that these days he spends a lot more time following politics, administrating, posting and selling gear on this site than he does working on new tools and hacks. And he's probably making quite a bit more money selling stuff here than from donations for hacking cameras, so I can't really blame him (and he doesn't need to do a damn thing for us, either). Regardless, this is a great community so I'm thankful for that.

Now days vk is very busy running this site. Better income and all. but yea men, what a grate community. we wont ever see raw video on gh series from vk. too much hours on programming when its better to make deals and charge for it. Its business as usual. Nothing bad about it.

LOL.

Guys, issue here is big misunderstanding from your side.

My fault being that I could not spend such bif amount of hours on one task I used to.

But it does not mean that I am waxing my carrot and doing nothing.
Just in less than one month - updated NTool and also updated tool to decrypt Pentax cameras firmwares.
I am not counting things related to Sony hacks that also require time (and software originating from this work and from this talks will be used on Panasonic cameras also).

@producer Yep, we purposefully worked hard on developing stuff so you could produce your comment. See ya'

@BlackLegSanji Totally wrong. VK works continuously as and when he has the time. He has a family and a life too you know.

Reminder to all: this site is NOT just about Panasonic stuff. The fact that ML have found a way of extracting raw from the live view of the EOS range is an outstanding culmination of hard work and achievement from their team. Good things come in waves for all cameras. More support (yes, and donations) will only help VK improve this site, research and development. Get behind him, DON'T knock him.

@producer A lot of people dropped their canon for a gh2/gh3 for a reason, they were not blind; sure hacked 5dmk3 RAW is in another league, as is the pricerange...