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Driftwood Cluster X series 3:│moon T7│ЅріzZ T6│Nebula T7│Drewnet T9│
  • 1804 Replies sorted by
  • @Zaven13 Improvements in the code for 720p from what I remember. Long time ago. All Cluster X stuff has been developed on 3.66D nearly a year old now!!!

    Right Nebula 6 GOP T7 is going up now.

  • @Driftwood, I thought Ptool 3.66d didn't do any changes for GH2 http://www.gh1-hack.info/wiki/VersionHistory

  • Yeah I know that. It changed over 3 days from what I remember - do a search - I think you'll find my comment regarding it to VK - there was a problem in summit. Its always best to stay uptodate :-)

  • Shattered! Right thats it. All the Clusters updated with the new theory - just Spizz to go which is nearly there - @bkmwcd is just finishing it off.

  • @Jim_Simon

    Audio isn't recorded as fps. The same 1 second of audio will sync perfectly to the same shot on video whether that video is recoded at 23.976, 24 exactly, 29.97 or 59.94.

    This is a naive assumption. It sounds right but that is not actually how sound sync works. I'm also talking about audio recorded via an external source (the "throw away" audio I referred to originally is what's recorded on camera...it might maintain sync and might not).

    Y'all should maybe google up some information on audio post for true 24FPS. You'll see that the audio has to be processed especially for that case. It's not drag-n-drop on your edit timeline. Yeah, if you're going to spend $20-30,000 to have a negative made of project shot digitally (or around $350/min for a short) they can walk you thru the process of conforming your audio.

    If you're not doing that then you're just making a simple thing more complicated. If you just use on-camera audio then it likely doesn't matter but there's no guarantee. Audio and video are two completely separate entities, two distinct streams, contained in one file but neither dependent or married to the other.

    Maintaining sync between two sources that weren't obtusely unrelated was one of the major hurdles that non-linear editing of digital source material had to overcome and it's only been in the last ten years or less that it's become as reliable as it is. One second of video is not simply equal to one second of audio.

    edit: and I'm by no means asking @driftwood to remove this feature or grief him over it in any way since there is also the standard option of 23.976 in there. Folks who don't know any better are possibly in for some headaches if they aren't careful though. Basically, if you don't know for sure that you need to be shooting 24FPS you likely shouldn't be. Little videos where you're just laying in a piece of music and don't have dialog are exempt of course, do whatever, it's just a bad habit to be in if you ever need to shoot something that other people are going to work on, you're paid for, or where other people are depending on you to not waste their time.

  • @burnetrhoades

    and it's like you said earlier, 23.97 is STILL around for a REASON

  • Like a lot of what we have to deal with, it's based on standards and engineering that has little to do with capabilities or limits in our current technology (like some dinosaur engineer thinking 16-235 in an already limited 8bit signal wasn't anything but retarded) but until everything changes you pick your battles.

  • This 24p discussion going on is completely mistaken. As long as you select the correct frame rate for your project in your nle/daw (i.e. same frame rate per second that you shot your footage) 1 second of audio - whether recorded at 24/96, 18/48, 16/44, 8/22, etc. - will perfectly match 1 second of video. For those who doubt this, do a search on your favorite recorder and see if the European model records at a different rate than the American model. It doesn't. 96Khz per second is 96Khz per second no matter what country you live in. So forget about this 24p/audio-sync non-issue.

  • discussion is getting out of context. please retake proper topic

  • @Jim_Simon no its not what i meant to say. see if video was recorded in 23.976 before it will drop 1 frame in every 40 second if it does the audio looses 1 frame time like like 60 / 24 right. so if audio was synced with 23.976. what will happen to video if it is set to 24 frames and the audio is still the same. anyway driftwood said he did set everything and it works great i have no argument on this. @driftwood 23.976 or 24 what frame rate u prefer?? 24 frame is traditional cinema but it do have anything to do with the shutter? 1/50 drops 2 frames every second gives us a blur in medium fast motion. if its 1/48 it wont isnt it. same way 23.976 is not 24 do it gives us sharper well behaved shutter friendly capture??

  • @driftwood if the video is captured in 25 frames does it has anything to do with 1/50 shutter???

  • what is the best profile setting for moon T7 -2-2-2-2 smooth or -2-2-2-2 standard??

  • driftwood: "Good lill' test - which version of Apocalypse did you use? FYI moon T7 has a better quantisation spread over the Apocalypse settings."

    @driftwood - Yes and it is perfect! I didnt know which setting I use. Thanks for the work!

  • Hi guys,

    having problems with Cluster v7 apocalypse now 6gop sharp II version (for me: the best compromise). I cannot go on, after 4,18 gb of recording (more or less 11 minutes). How can i resolve the problem? Have i to change settins, or patch? Wich drifwood to don't have this limit? It's important to record some events i have to take.

    THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS

  • (anyway i've the 45mb/s only...)

  • @Renovatio Try Nebula T7 or DREWnet T9 on page one of this thread to download. Its possible your card is not decent enough but Id be interested to know how you get on. report back here. Its hit and miss with those 45Mbps cards. If the above recommends dont work for your card try REDshift low bitrate setting found on the previous Cluster X Series 2 thread (page one for d/l link)

  • @spacewig

    This 24p discussion going on is completely mistaken. As long as you select the correct frame rate for your project in your nle/daw (i.e. same frame rate per second that you shot your footage) 1 second of audio - whether recorded at 24/96, 18/48, 16/44, 8/22, etc. - will perfectly match 1 second of video.

    As BurnetRhoades has pointed out (accurately), sync differences between 23.976 and 24 fps can become an issue if you're working with sync material from various sources, particularly material shot on film, which is delivered at 23.976. Unless you never use outside material and never take the material to a post-house or mixer for finishing, you are needlessly complicating your workflow and risking sync problems, by shooting and editing in 24fps in the video realm. Even film productions these days frequently shoot at 23.976.

  • Lets end this 24p/23.976 dispute as we've gone rather off topic. If you want to try out moon T7 with 24p use 'setD', if you want standard 23.976 use setE. The choice is yours. Most people should stick with version setE.

    I want feedback regarding moon T7, DREWnet T9 and Nebula T7 and your test videos. I have this sneaking suspicion that Nebula's 720p60 could be slightly better than the others as Im beginning to realise a new theory that will be revealed soon.

  • I did some crash tests with drewnet T9 this morning. I threw everything at it. autofocused iA mode and shooting raw photos at the same time and couldn't crash it. I'm a happy camper right now.

  • Thanks for the report @johnnymossville

    @dado023 REDshift 1b at 16Q is totally stabilised.

  • @BurnetRhoades

    I made two tests using my GH2 and the Zoom H4n. The first recoded 40 plus minutes using the built-in microphones on both devices. The second test added a mic to the Zoom via XLR, and then sent that output to the GH2, so both devices were recording identical audio.

    In both tests, the native clips were simply dropped into the appropriate sequence in Premiere Pro, no special processing.

    The Zoom audio drifted less than one frame over the course of 40 minutes. I'm good with that.

    I would also add that many of today's digital cinema cameras STILL record at exactly 24 fps, so I do think you're spreading FUD here. 24 exact has been the norm for a long time in film production, and it's worked just fine for them.

    It's nice that it now works fine for us.

  • @spacewig.

    Thank you. A voice of reason.

  • @driftwood.

    Sorry, Nick. Saw your post after I made mine.

  • Hi

    @driftwood

    sorry,I have some questions

    @dado023 REDshift 1b at 16Q is totally stabilised.

    which means that the small GOPs are alright ?

    do you will improve redshift to ?

    can i increase the bitrate in Redshift 1b ?? for example in 24H ~ 60000000 and 24L 28000000 ??

    ( i will do that because I would like to have in 24H best quality for ~30 min on a 16GB Card and in 24L in need spanning with my Patriot Card )

  • password: moont7e

    Testing moon T7 set e. Image quality is great. Still thinking of this motion issue. Next time I need some people dancing around on my tomatos..;)