Official Panasonic GH3 topic, series 3

Vesku

Okay I ment exellent photos with no noise and good added sharpness and pure colors. I have been taken about 40 000 photos over a year with GH3 and about 100 000 with GH2. If I shoot RAW photos (GH2 over 200iso, GH3 over 400iso) I must make a compromise between clarity and detail vs noise. With GH3 even 125iso is much cleaner than 200iso. But that is relative. I talk about absolute quality like compared to 5d3 or Sony A7.

In generally one can say that GH3 800 or even 1600iso photos are good or acceptable. When you look photos with 50inch screen at 100% you start to see differences. For example GH3 is so much better than GH2 with same 100-300mm lens that I could think it is hole different lens. Much better contrast and sharpness.

By the way when I shoot GH3 video in bright sunny day I can see difference in noise between 200iso and 400iso.

maddog15

I agree with @Conundrum. @Vesku saying "good photos" is very subjective. Just like some people say purple vs violet vs lavender. They're all "purple".... or are they? No. As far as photos on the GH3, you can shoot a myriad of ISO speeds before noise becomes a "problem." Plus, what if I'm going for a grainy distressed look that can't be achieved by just adding noise in PhotoShop? A photo shot at 6400 might me just perfect in achieving a "good photo". This of course is all in my humble opinion.

aljimenez

I agree with @Conundrum. I have even had good results with ISO 3200 for photos.

Conundrum

@Vesku That is just plain wrong! Do you even use this camera? ISO performance is very good up to 1600 with a little bit of noise reduction in Lightroom or Imaginomics or whatever software you prefer. Spreading this kind of disinformation is not helpful.

Vesku

When taking photos with GH3 one must stay below iso400 or iso320 if one wants to get good photos. With GH2 limit is iso200. Otherwise it is a struggle with noise.

matt_gh2

If you have a chance to go to the location and do some test shots that could really help to make sure you're ready.

Umii

@Flanders while you are getting your head around the subtleties of shooting manual if you just need to get the shot indoors I'd be really tempted just for this time create a custom setting put it in P, go to the motion picture menu and scroll to page 3 and select flicker reduce 1/50, set the ISO to I ISO and let the camera use that to manage the exposure most likely the aperture will stay wide open indoors assuming you have the kit lens. Then use the little red button to record rather than the shutter button like you would in manual. I'd take the time to white balance it manually indoors that's not that hard and will give a better result just find something neutral to set it on or your hand etc. until you have a grey card. Also use the AF/AE lock button to set the focus and exposure before hitting record that will stop it hunting and that exposure change you had in your video around assuming your doing fairly static shots.

Going forward manual is the way to do for consistent results, but I have the above set up for a quick just get the dam shot option and it works well indoors. Outdoors as others you'll need nd filters etc. to keep the shutter speed in range and get exposure. Have fun! (btw the internal mic is not good if you are thinking about recording music keep close eye on levels and get some test runs first if you are relying on that as you had an instrument in your picture!)

rNeil

And when you're wondering how in the Hades you get a decent exposure outdoors in sun shooting at say 1/60th second without having to be out darn near f64, well ... neutral density filters are your answer. Past a camera, a couple lenses, and a GOOD cine tripod, this is the next major expense ... they are dark pieces of very high quality glass (you hope!) to cut down light coming into the lens.

You will need several strengths, and it just makes more sense to buy large-diameter ones and get step-up rings for each lens filter size you need so you only get one of a strength and can use it on any lens you've got. Some people use and like variable-density ND filters, others think they're the plague. Decent ND filters are spendy. GOOD ND filters are ... spendier. Cheap ones ... well, why did you spend so dang much money on a good camera and good lenses just to knock the crap out of your footage with the dang ND filter? :)

If, of course, you've stepped up your game and use a rails-system to mount camera, EVF, sound gear, matte-box and all, of course ... then you can get the large square ND filters that fit into the matte box filter-holder. By the time you've got that, you probably won't be spending too much time around here ... ha.

Neil

Flanders

@RatLabProductions

@maddog15

THANKS, THANKS, THANKS and THANKS! Indeed the problem was the shutterspeed. I had no idea of what I was doing. Now I've set it right (24p=50shutter) and I can see no "flashing" at all.

And thanks for the trick, I'll remind that:

When shooting "lights" outside in the dark. Even if it's 24p, go down from 50 to 30.

thanks again, I'm going happy to sleep :)

(Now let's just dream about a GH3 hack!)

maddog15

@Flanders The general rule regarding shutter speed with video is that you double the shutter speed via the Frames Per Second (fps). So if you're shooting at 24p (that's 24 frames per second) your shutter speed should be set to 50. 60 fps is a SS of 125. (NOTE: Yes rule can be bent. You can shoot 24fps at a SS of 30. BTW: this trick is how to get rid of that pulsing florescent street light. Similar to the problem you've encountered with florescent lights indoor.) Stay away from letting the camera choose the SS in auto mode. Eg: on a bright sunny day the auto SS mode may jack your shutter speed up to like 400 or more to compensate for all that bright light. Your video will have a kind of jerky studdering to the movements instead of natural motion blur that'll appear more "normal" looking to the viewer. I think (as most of us have learned) you'll find the best and really the only way to shoot proper video is in all manual mode. There are always exceptions though.

rNeil

@maxr

Oh, yes, if you need a critical use for say, sports ... sharp detail, high-speed focusing, HIGH ISO, yea, the D3 is gonna blow the GH3 out of the water. Journalist use in fast street-stuff, especially questionable lighting amounts needing high ISO, yea, stick with the D3 ... gonna focus and shoot that better. Ultimate family portrait image, well ... the D3 does really nice, and the D600 with even more rez does really nice.

For most of my portrait work, folks will not see the difference once I'm through in post. And yea, I know what you mean ... even though for some of that use the GH3 at first feels like a light-weight brick ... some of the features like being able to simply tap the evf for focus area, that sort of thing ... makes going back to the D3 or over to the D600 feel like handling an antiquated tractor. :)

A VERY ... heavy ... tractor.

Neil

RatLabProductions

Looks like it's the light cycles and your shutter speed.

In 60hz nations (NTSC) I use 60 or 30 for indoor (30 only for low light low motion stuff where I need the extra light). It has to do with the hz cycle your lights operate at. Sorry I wish I could explain this better. Google can probably help explain it more in depth.

Flanders

@RatLabProductions @rNeil

"Current Hz Cycle of my area". Wow... As soon as I sent this post, I will type that in Google (i have no idea what your talking about) My shuterspeed was always "Auto" (I just figured out 5 minutes ago, that even shooting Manual, you still have to "active/set" your shutter speed "to manual") - What shutter speed would you recommend for indoors, with just the "house lights"? -- I'm afraid, because on Sunday I have my first "serious (1st) video shoot" (a model wants a videobook) and it's going to be indoors, in the bed/couch, so I really don't want that flickering to show.

Video example of flickering (10 seconds long - dont worry):

you can also see how the image at first has a "blue light" - and then it turns darker (by itself) Oh, and I always choose the "bulb" icon, when shooting indoors. Or the "K" icon when it's really dark (<-- i probably dont even undestand what Im doing here)

Any advice is highly appreciated. (in order to not f*ck up my 1st video shoot) - I will post the result on Sunday. And hand out beers for you too! (even if it has to be a beer-invitation-donation over PayPal) Much appreciated! :)

maxr

@rNeil that was just too general a comment for some obnoxious dumb fuck like me not to pick it up :P

But now... since were "talking", I think that is fair to say that it would greatly depend what you're using the machine for

As a neutral ground we can agree wedding, studio, news, nature or action photographers have different needs.
You might even be a cross-category-outcasted-weirdo photographer - my case I'm afraid. But not hypster eh!!!

Not complaining about GH3 abilities, for Mandela's sake, I started a thread about it within the photographic context/medium.

As experience is a tricky thing, I try not to compare so much single images but jobs and you're down right

which on a 24x30 inch print at a typical viewing distance of say, 3-4 feet (meter and a half ... )

Now, as a tool (a stills camera one) I found that for multi-purpose critical jobs this baby makes me have to work much harder though big drawbacks such as bad high ISOs with poor DR (and here please read grain quality more than clinical aestetics), pixel-pitch, bad ergonomics, so-so build quality, wifi imposition for tether, very bad EVF (i.e. that would have make a worlds difference), etc. Curiously enough some of the drawbacks become, sometimes, very handy and off course has lots of nice things, being a big one, for me at least, weigh.

I also found something interesting in our relationship. It is when filming that the whole experiencing is more... integrated, symbiotic, chachi piruli; an when I feel "at home" or like some manga guy once told me: one with the machine, ji ji

@rNeil all and all I try to convince myself I'm a better photographer now, you wanna see my cats' turds ;-)

rNeil

Been to 24x30 inch prints ... portraits ... with the GH3. Understand, I came from medium-format film, using Mamiya RB67 Pro-S cameras, 6x7cm negative format, and even some 4x5 inch work. We had our own pro portrait printing lab up through 60" images for quite a few years, besides our studio ... primarily because we were so damn picky on exact color and contrast no lab wanted to work with us. For very long, at least. :) If I can't make a print I'm happy with, I won't have the camera. I've tried a bunch, of course.

I've been through several generations of digital cameras and this isn't a hobby ... it's how our entire family income is created. For again, over 35 years. And no, the GH3 isn't quite a D3 or D600 for stills ... but handled wisely, both in-cam and in post, none of our clients (who pay dearly for their images and expect something above the standard "faux" photographers out there) would ever be able to tell which camera the image came from without being asked to look for differences, which on a 24x30 inch print at a typical viewing distance of say, 3-4 feet (meter and a half ... ) one will have a great trouble discerning.

Absolute quality of the images? Yes, a fair amount of difference. Practical image quality differences? After working by intelligent practices, not so much.

maxr

No, the GH3 isn't quite a D3 or D600 at stills ... but pretty darn close.

Ja ja ja that's a good one @rNeil

rNeil

@Flanders

I do love working with the GH3, and I came from shooting totally portraits ... stills ... and my last camera was a Nikon D3, an amazing tool. (I started 35+ years ago with medium-format film RB67 cameras.)

I've found that the GH3 does have some sort of skin-recognition thing going on, tries to modify the hues and contrast ... "soften" things I think ... and can go a bit "plasticene" as it's said around here. So, for stills (processed in Lightroom 5) I'll add a very small amount of "medium grain" to the image to get away from the over-smoothed native look of the GH3 ... and up the "vibrancy" ... and skin looks great. Quite real and normal.

In video, the settings I've listed above ... contrast probably -3 or -2, sharpness -3 to -5 (take your pick), color saturation between -3 to -1, sharpness maybe -3 or -4 will do pretty decent.

Nail the WB in shooting, probably tweaking the grid settings in the "adjust" section of the WB screen.

Do this, and the GH3 is quite a nice cam to shoot with ... there's been some gorgeous stuff shot with it. If using good settings for this camera, it grades quite well. It is NOT a GH2, and some of the people who've tried using settings that worked great for the GH3 have been very frustrated with it. Those that roll with what this can do that a GH2 can't ... and in the way a GH3 "works" ... have been mostly very pleased. As have I.

I go back to my beloved D3, or my wife's D600 ... and wow, there's no touch control on the rear LCD, how dumb is THAT? Just things like that. No, the GH3 isn't quite a D3 or D600 at stills ... but pretty darn close. Though the D600 does decent video files (I've worked a few through ... not bad stuff at all) the GH3 is a HECK of a lot handier to use in making those video files. Overall, comparing the GH3 to two very awesome pro-level image tools, it's pretty darn nice.

A Red? Ha ... no. Can a hacked GH2 do some things better? Yeah ... but ONLY hacked in video use. Shoot stills better? Um ... no. Not hardly.

Neil

RatLabProductions

I prefer the look of the GH3 to the GH2 personally. I always hated the green cast the GH2 had on skin. But again that is just me. I don't shoot ultra flat. I prefer everything about the GH3 over the GH2 save for the EVF which I don't use much anyway other than stills.

What kind of flickering? Can you post an example? What is your shutterspeed set at? Are you taking into account the current hz cycle of your area when shooting with indoor lights?

Flanders

Thanks for the -2 -5 -numbers tips :) I'll set them now.

And yes, the "flickering" I get, is only indoors (at night/with no sunlight) with artificial lights. Approaching the light source/subject.

It must be a very stupid mistake, easy to solve from my part, I'm sure (since I just got started). But can't figure out what setting must I 'touch' in order to get rid of the flickering lights (which I also get/see in the in-built LCD screen of the cam.)

I didn't know the GH3 was "so sensible" (problematic) with skin tones or magentas, If I knew... I would have go for the GH2 and hack it. I really hope the GH3 will offer a hack at some point.

Thanks for the help! :) Really appreciate it!

rNeil

Last question first: very few here use the All-Intra mode, it seems in many tests to have a bit more noise and artifacts (I think those are the problems) than the "regular" mov mode. So whether shooting 24, 29/30, or 59/60 fps, most folks stick with the 50mbps output.

Second question ... there's a difference in preference between "Natural" and "Standard" ... I'm one of the folks using "Standard" more ... but though I started at the all-5 settings as had been suggested by some ... the GH3 seems to do some unfortunate modifications to the image at those settings. First, in order to get the lowest over-all contrast (-5) and most dynamic range ... it seems to slightly compress the mid/upper-mid tones ... ESPECIALLY skin tones. Not good.

So, contrast of maybe -2 is being used by more and more around here ... carries pretty good dynamic range, but doesn't "squash" the contrast of skin tones nearly as much.

Next ... -5 on saturation seems to end up with some difficulty getting other than pasty-plasticene skin color, mostly to the blue/magenta side for some of our eyes (especially when combined with -5 contrast) ... and then occasionally flicker to a bit yellow/green before reverting to pasty. Again, saturation of -2 to even 0 is becoming more common from comments. I'm playing with -1 for now.

As to the flicker ... if you've got ANY fluorescent lights in the room, shutter speeds are very problematic. If not, what you may be seeing (if it's on computer monitor) is ... if shooting at 24fps, I've heard ... a problem between computer monitor screen refresh-rates and the shutter speed of the camera. A few people have noted that on their monitor they can get flicker, but ... when playing the same file over a "regular" tv, there's no flicker.

Now ... one last bit about skin-tones. We've seemed to reach some agreement that if you want the best skin-tones, a very CLEAN white-balance in camera is necessary. Possibly with (after setting the K or doing a manual WB) playing with the adjustment of the WB in menus. Such that the skin-tones look best in-cam.

Flanders

Very newbie question (just got my GH3, first DSLR):

When I shoot inside my house, with artificial light (the kitchen lamp) I get like strokes/light flickering/"flashing lights" all around my subject? <---- this is making me crazy.

(obviously shooting in Manual, not Auto mode) but I'm trying to learn Manual and if you guys could answer me this question, I'll appreciate it a lot!

Also, from what I've read, the first thing I have to do is set my "Standard" to -5 -5 -5 -5, because it will be easier later to grade?

And last question:

Do you guys shoot ALL Intra 72Mbp, or 24p/50Mbps? I can't find infos about whats the best!

Thanks a lot, thanks thanks thanks!

Stab

Hey guys,

Couple of weeks ago I finished my new short film, shot on the GH3. I also used my new Samyang / Rokinon primes and a new Metabones SpeedBooster. So I made a little story, got the crew together and we made this short film. Maybe you are interested :) Opinions are very welcome of course!

fran

Haha! Thanks @maxr!! You are right, maybe I had so fine shootings with the GH2 that I have to pay with some punishment!! :-D There´s a bunch of issues out there! I giving it back to the seller, there were anoying things, like the EVF, I was unable to be confindent in focus...The sharpen affects it, if you put it down you only see a blured screen...we see what happens when they send it back...for photo is not a problem because you got good autofocus, but for pulling focus on video...uff....hard! Thanks for your help!

MikeLinn

maxr

Hey @fran that flicker is called RGP or random god punishment :P
Now, more seriously, there's also a GH3 issues thread you may want to look and post at =)

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