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How to Handle Concert Video with Multiple Bands
  • Hi, All. I am considering doing a 3 hour video of 3 different bands playing at a charity benefit. At first I thought I would do it for free, but, although I'm a beginner, I'm starting to think I should start charging.

    What would make sense in this scenario? Could I charge the organizer a flat rate for a copy of the video? Or give him one for free, and offer to sell individual videos to each of the bands. What about all the copyright legal mumbo jumbo. Do I need to worry about that? Do I need to get written agreements from all the musicians with them agreeing that I film them beforhand? What if one band covers a song, and I sell the video to them and they throw it on their website, can the Rolling Stones come back and sue me? Is that like a one-in-a-million type of risk?

    Logistically, I am going to have myself manning a telephoto GH2 on a tripod (with closeups of the bands singing and playing), along with a fixed wide shot with a GH1. My buddy will be roving around with a handheld for some med shots of different angles.

    Any opinions/advice are appreciated. Thanks.

  • 19 Replies sorted by
  • Legally, any or physical or digital distribution of an audio recording of a musical performance, or distribution of a video with synchronized audio of a musical performance requires a license from the music's copyright holder or agent, whether you are selling the recordings or not. Distribution of a concert video recording would require a so-called synchronization license, which would typically be negotiated directly with the music publisher. If you're not planning to distribute any videos yourself, then you do not need a sync license. If the bands want to distribute the videos, then it's up to them to get licenses.

    To record the performance, you need the performers' permission. To distribute an audio-visual recording of the performance, a license would need to be negotiated with the performers. These fall under performers' rights.

    The event organizers will also need public performance licenses, which are typically obtained through performing rights organizations like ASCAP and BMI.

    If you want to distribute videos yourself and these are small-time bands who are doing some of their own songs, you could try to negotiate directly with the bands and the songwriters/composers for the necessary licenses, with or without an exchange of money. They might grant free licenses just to get additional exposure. If the bands do covers of popular songs, I'd say to forget about trying to get sync licenses from the music publishers. Negotiation is time consuming and costly, and the license fees would likely be more than you're willing or able to pay.

    If they are performing covers of popular songs, probably the best you can do is put it on YouTube and not monetize the video. You still might get a take-down notice from the music publisher, but that's probably the worst that would happen. No one is likely to sue if you haven't made any money distributing the videos.

  • One possibility might be to draw up a contract that gives you the rights to the footage, within certain limitations, and that allows you to charge royalties on all future distribution of the footage. You might even approach the bands and offer to sell the edited concert footage as DVDs, with the provision that you keep 10 - 50% of the proceeds.

  • @Peter123456 .. perhaps an alternative approach.

    I have been in the same scenario several times, (and spent a lot of time and sometimes money with little return) and am about to shoot (parts?) of another charity concert with 10 bands .. 9 hours in duration.

    One of the questions you should ask yourself is do you want to be in the business of selling DVD's or making videos for those that want to sell them.

    I could tell you of the mistakes (In terms of cost and time) I have made previously .. 9 cameras, 5 manned and 4 unmanned .. then edit it.

    This year, I am going with the same size crew as you, 3 statics and 2 manned cameras .. 2 GH2 and 2 EX1s .. and 1 to be decided.

    I am shooting and editing a 3 minute promo for free, which the charity will be able to use as they fit.

    I am offering each band the shooting component for $100 each. if they don't take the option, then I will only shoot enough of the performance to enable the promo.

    I am also arranging for somebody else to record multitrack into protools via a split from the desk.

    After the event if the bands want to, I will edit clips for $300-$500 per song, dependent on how many they want, or they can take their footage to make alternate arrangements, and possibly save themselves some money.

    I am leaving up to the event organiser to get rights, if enough bands jump on board a DVD/Blueray is an option, I have suggested one song from each band .. if they like that option I will have to think about how much I will charge, as it's charity.

    Regarding the covers, simplest solution is to not include them in a complete concert performance.

    If was contemplating the full concert, I would be switching it live.

    I am happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

  • Thanks for the responses. To simplify, I've decided I am just recording two performances from one-man-bands. They will be doing all their own material. Then, I will give them the recordings (since it's charity and it's my first time doing this type of video). Next time I will charge though, in a similar method to @kavadni.

  • @Peter123456 .. The event I am planning has a similar result.
    With just over a week to go, I will shoot enough to do a short clip to enable promotion of the event next year (Gratis) and only one of the bands is committed enough .. it's a three piece hard rock band .. but on this occasion the are doing an acoustic set of their songs with out their drummer .. makes for a relaxing evening out for me :) .. 3 statics and 2 manned .. and hopefully somewhere between $500 and $1600 in post production.

    I am glad that I was able to help

  • @kavadni, I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

    Should I get releases from the two performers and the venue, or is this overkill since I am not charging for it?

    Do I need to talk to the audio engineer beforehand to make sure I can get a feed from his mixer, or will he likely be fine with this when I request it on the day of the concert? How are you dealing with audio? Just a feed from the mixer, or also a mic on the speakers?

    How do you ensure that your camera will be up high enough to capture over the heads of the audience?

    Do you plan on white balancing with someone holding up a sheet of white paper on stage in the expected lighting before the start of the show? Would this be awkward to request?

    I am considering putting some simple powder makeup on the performers. Do you think this is a good idea, or unecessary?

    Thanks.

  • @peter123456

    Should I get releases from the two performers and the venue, or is this overkill since I am not charging for it?

    If your giving the footage to the performers, releases are not an issue. If your giving the footage to the promoter it's their issue.

    Do I need to talk to the audio engineer beforehand to make sure I can get a feed from his mixer, or will he likely be fine with this when I request it on the day of the concert?

    I think it's a good idea to speak to them, sometimes they are grumpy and under pressure on the day.

    How are you dealing with audio?

    If I can I record twice:
    A stereo feed from desk into one of the cameras.
    And, I record multitrack individually .. a channel direct from the desk into protools or into an Alesis 24 track (these can be hired very cheaply here $50).

    Just a feed from the mixer, or also a mic on the speakers?

    I don't record the speakers up close. I put a Roland R-26 up as a backup .. ususallly just behind or in front of the mixing desk.

    How do you ensure that your camera will be up high enough to capture over the heads of the audience?

    I hire staging (I intend to have some built) .. 4' x 6' carpeted .. 1 foot high. That gets the camera about 7'6"

    Do you plan on white balancing with someone holding up a sheet of white paper on stage in the expected lighting before the start of the show?

    Either that or tungsten preset, if the cameras are all the same. Generally the lights are up and down on dimmers with shifts in temperature. And if it's got colour .. balance on the ungelled lights or use the presets, it's mean't to be coloured

    Would this be awkward to request?

    Be there before the first act, even if it's not the one you are shooting .. easy enough to request as they focus lights on the microphones. Being nice to the lighting guy .. telling him how you like the looks of his setup .. explain your concerns about those super dark bits .. mostly they are kool with it .. promise them copies :) I always tell them that some white on the faces at all times makes it easier for me .. they always forget .. pray they don't plunge you into all red :)

    I am considering putting some simple powder makeup on the performers. Do you think this is a good idea, or unecessary?

    It's a good idea .. if you can coordinate it .. I've never bothered when it's live .. I try to be as inconspicuous and invisible as possible.

    :)

  • @balazer One of the reasons I love this place is there are professionals here that don't drink too much coffee.

    That's about the best explanation I've ever seen on the internet. Usually, there's an hysterical response (Especially over YouTube) from some wild eyed videographer who's watched too many Perry Masons reruns.

    The truth is that it's a lot of trouble and expense to get the permissions needed for distribution, but if the OP wants to do the project, you sent him in the right direction.

  • Thanks for the great advice, @kavadni! Maybe you should write a book!

    I'm hoping my Tascam DR03 (http://tascam.com/product/dr-03/) recorder will be okay recording the signal out of the mixer. Any idea on whether a typical mixer signal might be overpowered for my $100 flash recorder with 3.5mm line/mic input? Maybe I will need an attenuator? I do have an xlr to 3.5mm adapter already. Thanks, again.

  • The Tascam products I have encountered have been pretty damned good, it states in it's specs mic/line level. The signal from the desk will be line level :)

    Testin is always a good idea

  • On the topic of event multi camera performance.

    This is switched live using mostly BMD equipment.
    I shot with 5 cameras, 2 camera operators and a production assistant.

    We shot over three days at one stage, there was 21.5 hours of performances, hour sets with a 15 minute changeover. I came back with 15.25 minutes of performance.

    I feel that switching live is the key to making money in the performance event market, the post production on this should be no more than 4 hours per act.

    I am uploading the first song of each act ungraded as it came from the switcher.
    Recorded at DNxHD 1920 x 1980 50i, exported from Premier at a preset 10Mb/s for Vimeo. It will give me an idea on what to grade.

    https://vimeo.com/album/2147164
    (Four acts are there, more to come for those that are interested)

    I am happy to answer any questions, any thoughts?

  • Looking good, @kavadni! Which cameras were those 5 cameras? I ended up doing mine for free. I used three different cameras, so had to do quite a lot of color correction which messed up the image sometimes.

  • @kavadni I love live switched stuff. I know how difficult it is. Just a thought - on your third video, Paul Ubana Jones, I would have liked to have the voice and guitar sounding a lot closer, to match camera shots you had, rather than hearing quite a lot of PA sound from the room. I liked the shots however. I think I noticed it in this one in particular, because you had quite a few CU shots of him and the mic, and then when he sang, it wasn't the sound perspective I was expecting to hear. @Peter123456 I thought that was better - but almost too close. Sound is really crucial in these things (it's the point of doing it, after all).

    I'd absolutely agree, though, that there's something really special about live stuff. It's the sense of occasion and the way you're hearing a performer, as they performed, warts and all.

  • @peter123456, there was 1 EX3 with a doubler, and 1 EX1. They were operated.
    There were 2 Sony MC50 (a handycam) at the side of stage on light stands with magic arms. They were unmanned. There was a GH2 about 4 metres to my right.
    It's shot and delivered, so I have to live with the exposure and colour. That said, one of the performers I will grade and do up a Bluray .. I know him personally.

    I switched from the same room at the back next to the sound desk. The two operators set the two side cameras between acts.

    @Mark_the_Harp, sadly for this one, no multitrack. The audio was a pair of Behringer C2s directly above me. I offered the multitrack service, they said they had some one to do it, but they didn't show.

  • @kavadni Serves them right for not booking you! The sound is still nice of course.

  • This year they had us do the main venue, two stages side by side, shot it with 4 x Sony EX1s and a 2 x MC50s. There was a 5 minute break between bands. 18 performers over 2 and 1/2 days. I have almost finished the DVD and BluRay mastering.

    I think we've come a long way since last year.

    A total crew of 5, myself, 3 Camera operators and a production assistant ... the camos had to reset the 2 side of stage cameras (mc50's) in 5 minutes, one of the ex's was the wide shot, right next to the desk, set by me, and then they ran to the risers.

  • Although I agree with a lot of what has been said here about licenses and releases, I would add that copyright is a very complicated subject. For example, if you are releasing a cover of a well-known song, and the band makes an arrangement, then you have minimum two versions--after all, they may be incorporating previous arrangements or covers as well. If you add riffs, those technically belong to the originator, and so on. Riffs may even be mini-compositions. Basically, if you have questions about copyright you need to consult an expert, and even then experts don't always agree. Certainly what you don't want to do is assume that everything will be fine based on a casual verbal agreement.

    For these reason, a lot of presenters have all the performers sign very broad releases that cover every imaginable distro scenario before they perform. If you are a performer you should read these very carefully, and cross out anything you don't want. Or don't even sign it if you don't want to--the wording of these releases are pretty artist unfriendly.

    There is also the question of lyrics, logos, loops, software and so on. And each of these may have different layers of authorship and rights.

    YouTube and other big players have a grey area where they sometimes sublicense on-the-spot. The question then is, are you buying the sub from the entity that owns it.

  • Regarding 'Copyrights' of musical compositions.

    APRA-AMCOS is the Australian equivalent of BMI.
    I have been led to believe that BMI functions similarly to APRA.
    They cooperate internationally with each other and with similar organisations in other countries.

    In Australia, DVDs and BluRays of concerts are manufactured under what is called the AML (Audio Manufacture Licence) http://www.apra-amcos.com.au/musicconsumers/makingrecordingsretailsale/makingaoneoffrecordingforretailsale.aspx

    It's quite straight forward .... you submit a list of songs on the DVD and they send you an invoice (up to 6.6% of RRP) which you pay at the time of manufacture. If a song is not controlled by them or BMI, etc ... then they will tell you ... and you have to track down the copyright holder and make alternative arrangements.

    Online 'streaming' and 'digital download' operates exactly the same excepting the percentage is (up to) 8.8% of revenue and there is a monthly reporting and payment requirement.

    APRA admit that online/streaming is new to them and systems are being developed. They have issued me a contract that covers all future live performance streaming/download, I might do.

    Regarding 'Mechanical Copyright'

    It should be acquired in a contract/agreement with the band before or at the time of performance.

    If the band has not joined/signed with APRA (or equivalent) then you could capture original 'compositional rights' at this point too. I prefer not to when it's a festival, as it provides a standardised procedure that handles most/all bands in the festival.


    Hopefully there is enough information at the links to guide others.
    Any 'case' questions just ask.

  • I shot a CD Launch with four bands on the bill, with an 2 EX1s, I operated one with a 1.6x doubler from 25metres and the second was a static wide (2m to my right) I gave it a 'mickey mouse' edit and a logo.

    Gain was a +6db inpart to give myself some depth of field, it was dark. Neat video was applied in After Effects prior to editing in Media Composer.

    I share this one mainly because the act is so cool,
    he performed with a backing track, so the audio is actually his CD.