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BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
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  • BM marketing doesn't care about him and that's why they didn't think to invite him. It's not surprising - if you check his site, when is the last time he even finished a review of a camera? Why should BM care about him? Or any other vendor, for that matter?

    Well, one reason is number of real visitors. Andrew never made marketing empires that many of youtube reviewers are with buying views, cross advertisements, click farms, etc.

    One thing we need to do here is put person out of our focus and look at just some facts and arguments I talked above.

    As for reviews - either you go systematic and scientific way or you don't. And camera reviews is the most complex thing from all. This is why PV will start doing such in 2019 only.

  • It is proper BM department job is to invite him. In reality they just don't care.

    Agreed about this - BM marketing doesn't care about him and that's why they didn't think to invite him. It's not surprising - if you check his site, when is the last time he even finished a review of a camera? Why should BM care about him? Or any other vendor, for that matter?

    A while ago, his site turned into a garbage dump of him giving his opinions on camera news - the closest thing to a review in the last 6 months was him talking about great the 4k crop is on the EOS M because it works well with 16mm glass (3 months after he called the same crop a "middle finger"). The last "review" he did was more than a year ago and as I joked earlier, was talking about a few things with GH5 firmware 2.0 and then saying he would publish a longer review before the weekend which never came.

    I believe he is more angry at BM, and John only as being close to them.

    He is angry at JB as well because he didn't like the things that JB had to say.

  • I'm not saying he has no point at all - I'm just saying it's ridiculous to get so angry that there was a meetup in his area that he wasn't invited to. With an attitude like that, if he lived in NYC or LA, he'd spend his entire life angry and full of rage.

    It is proper BM department job is to invite him. In reality they just don't care.
    Thing go such way not only because it is good for company, but also because it is good for PR/marketing.
    Having close controlled group means that you have much less things to do, and need much less skill.

    I can't see any reason at all to be angry at JB who, as you said, told things exactly as they are and doesn't even work for the company.

    I believe he is more angry at BM, and John only as being close to them.

    It's also somewhat offensive how he keeps talking about giving manufacturers "free advertising" and acting like he runs his site for purely altruistic reasons. He is selling products on his site as well (how-to guides for cameras, mediocre color correction luts, etc) and driving extra traffic is extra marketing for him to sell more of his stuff.

    Compared to many other sites - he is quite good.

    Yep, he sells quite useless LUTs. Yet somehow he needs to survive. It is cold stone jungles of capitalism.

  • I'm not saying he has no point at all - I'm just saying it's ridiculous to get so angry that there was a meetup in his area that he wasn't invited to. With an attitude like that, if he lived in NYC or LA, he'd spend his entire life angry and full of rage.

    I can't see any reason at all to be angry at JB who, as you said, told things exactly as they are and doesn't even work for the company.

    It's also somewhat offensive how he keeps talking about giving manufacturers "free advertising" and acting like he runs his site for purely altruistic reasons. He is selling products on his site as well (how-to guides for cameras, mediocre color correction luts, etc) and driving extra traffic is extra marketing for him to sell more of his stuff.

  • @eatstoomuchjam

    Yet he has a point.

    BM marketing is worst I ever had experience with.

    They do not value old communities and sites who actually made BM first cameras success possible.
    They do not behave like friends, but more like cold blooded lawyers who use people like condoms.
    Do they have economic reasons to do such? Of course. But in such way no need to be upset with that Andrew wrote.

    I think this is that Andrew tries to tell.

    I believe he is upset to see that BM became no different to Canon or Nikon, having their pet reviewers who release footage upon inspection and are all under NDA. Actually this is that John said.

    Current situation with camera reviews is very serious and must be stopped definitely.

    Companies interests is one thing and here we see full happiness, but they completely ignore interests of the people.

    P.S. And it is not cameras, can see some blog posts of that Nvidia is doing. At least in case of computers we can see strong opposition to such methods.

  • "You can use a metabones adapter to give it a look exactly like a full frame camera or even with the beautiful depth of focus rolloff of a medium format camera. Here's a 2 minute 'film' that I made of walking around my city at night with it. More details and in-depth test shots of some books and toys and rope lights in my living room coming in part 2 of my review..."

    (18 months pass, part 2 never comes)

  • WTF! Blackmagic didn't invite me to their camera party! I'm buried just a few km away! - Stanley Kubrick #rollinginthegraveMAD!!!!!

  • Voldemort is apparently not going to buy one of these now because Black Magic won't give him free stuff and because @johnbrawley didn't kiss his butt. I guess we'll have to miss out on a bunch of bad pseudoscientific review comments about how "cinematic" and/or "filmic" it is. :(

  • @DrDave

    You can't have fanless design with powerful FPGA they use. As it is around 10-30 times les energy efficient compared to custom LSIs big companies use.

  • It's probably comparable to the IBIS noise on a lot of modern cameras. My G85 buzzes away the whole time you're using it and it hasn't caused me any problems yet.

  • Fan noise? Hmmmmmmmm.

  • @johnbrawley Thanks for taking time to respond to my post & I look forward to seeing you shoot the "8K URSA MAJOR" they must have under wraps sometime soon- I hope they let you keep it permanently... ;-)

  • @NickBen

    Sorry for the delay.

    It supports HDR in that it captures a high dynamic range image. How you map that is up to you. But there's nothing formal that I know of that does that as yet.

    They have done a new version of what used to be called "Video" which was their REC 709ish LUT. It's now called "extended video" and it's a real improvement when used with the new gen 4 colour science.

    The screen is the same screen as used on the Video Assist 5" and the Ursa Mini 4.6K. A good screen, but not a high nit screen for any kind of serious monitoring. I think of it as a touch / menu / interface screen.

    There is fan noise, it's not especially loud, on a par with the Ursa Mini. It's a constant fan, like all BMD cameras. Remember they use solid state cooling, not fans to maintain the temperature. Weirdly it vents out the bottom instead of the top of the camera. I find my hand gets warm when holding it underneath. Not uncomfortable, but you notice it.

    I didn't try it on a gimbal. I kind of hate them :-) (I own a Ronin 2 and a a Ronin S)

    I didn't use the SSD feature.

    The rear display uses almost no power, and just like on all BMD cameras, it's always on because it's your status screen.

    I've been using the existing screens in other iterations in all the weather situations you mention and it's worked fine for me.

    I didn't do any stills, and yes it can do timelapse but I didn't use it for that. I literally had a very short amount of time with it. When I shot with it I believe it was the only "functional" version in the world. It was hand carried and flown to me to use and then taken away :-)

    I imagine it will do great green screen, but I didn't use it in this scenario.

    It's not technically late yet, whereas RED...

    JB

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev can you please split off all posts about colour "science" into an extra topic and cleare this one up to be only about the new BMPCC4k?

    Cheers

  • @GeoffreyKenner Have you ever produced an HDR video? Have you ever seen one on a 4K HDR TV, even a $299 one? Or even on an HDR-capable smart phone? If you have not, then I understand why you don't get it. If you have, then you must be blind. More colors are better than less colors, 1000 nits is better than 250 nits. And 12 stops of DR is better than 5-6. The difference between SDR and HDR is stunning seen on any HDR-capable device. Most of this is the DR advantage rather than the color, but still, to argue against reproducing more colors is silly. Is this - if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing?

    The Shogun Inferno can display 1500 nits, so you can even monitor in HDR in the field, albeit with less than the full color gamut.

    I agree that not many displays can display the full REC2020 gamut (one m, btw). So therefore, only shoot in REC709? What exactly are you recommending? And no, going from REC709 to REC2020 produces false colors. You cannot recreate colors in the world that are not recorded, by any math transform. Look at the 2D gamut graphs, REC709 misses more colors that we see than does REC2020 or S Gamut or V-gamut.

  • Considering that even the top of the line 30 000$ high end color grading display don't even have the capability to properly display Rec2020 nor reproduce peak brightness necessary for HDR, I don't even know why the heck so many people actually want it in camera. Right now your only option unless you own two 4K laser Christie Projector is to generate a profile LUT to adjust your maximum screen capability to display correctly what it'll look like as a HDR output but you'll never be able to play with full gamut. And yes Vitaliy_Kiselev is right, you do color space transformation even from Rec709 to Rec2020, it all depends of your screen capabilities. The last tendency I've seen that messes up a lot of final output is people rushing to color Grade in P3 on their monitor (Eizo & BenQ to cite the most affordable). It's a huge mistake considering that it first don't display 100% of the gammut but has a gamma response that differs from the actual screen signal. It's far better to grade in RGB Rec709 and do a color space transform to DCI-XYZ, the result will be much more faithful if the display is well calibrated to Rec709.

    But if it's a concern, shoot Raw and do your own color management. Footages looks fantastic btw, I'm waiting though to see some report on bug/crash and what that cheap price has to bring forward as a compromise. But just for the fact you might get Resolve studio, it's a very good thing.

  • The previous BMPCC wasn’t known for its low noise. It produced a fantastic picture, but it wasn’t exactly a low light performer. Fast forward to the BMPCC4K and things have changed, a lot. The new camera has dual native ISOs of 400 and 3200. However the camera will switch automatically to the upper gain circuit at ISO1250. Using ISO settings above or below those two native settings will have an effect on dynamic range, but only minimal.

    https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5766-we-ve-tried-the-blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k-here-s-all-you-need-to-know

  • @bannedindv specs provided by the shooter of the Bubblegum video:

    • RAW 3:1 4K DCI
    • 24fps Project / 60fps Off-Speed
    • ISO 400, 1250, 3200, 5000
    • Samsung T5 SSD through USB-C

    DJI Ronin-S

    • Metabones EF to MFT T Speedbooster XL 0.64x
    • Shot with Contax Zeiss MM primes: 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 85/f1.4, 135/f2.8 + Hoya Pro NDs
    • 95% Ronin-S / 5% handheld.
  • I find the lee filter swatches very useful. There is a great app for android and iphone.

    http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/colour-details.html#798

    The x and y are the coordinates in the CIE 1931 colorspace, which is the theoretical reference of every color we see and are able to reproduce, and then some presumably.

    @Lohmatij I agree with the absolute subjective dimension of colour, there is no way to determine if we two perceive a given wavelength in the same way. Any comparison is done through language. Wittgenstein's Remarks on color is a fascinating though pretty demanding read.

    Hope I am not hijacking this thread.

  • @eatstoomuchjam

    I wasn’t correct when I mentioned purple “spectrum”, the proper way would be to say “a group of purple colors.” I was talking about XYZ color model which can’t describe those colors accurately, and because RGB color model and all existing RGB color spaces are based on it, we can say that they will have trouble with rendering of those colors too.

    Keep in mind that while some colors, like violet, can be described as a a single wavelength , some colors has to be described as a combination of different wavelengths. Purple doesn’t have any corresponding wavelength, it’s a combination of pure blue and pure red, 2 colors on the opposite side of spectrum. The other simple example is color “white”, which consists of equal combination of all visible wavelengths.

  • The last shot in the Bubblegum video is of the operator holding what looks like a Ronin S, FWIW.

  • @Lohmatij "for example there is a big chunk of purple spectrum which just can’t be described in math."

    This statement seems ridiculous. What we perceive as colors are portions of the visible spectrum of wavelengths. Purples are the wavelengths at the short end of the visible spectrum (wavelength 450–400 nm, frequency 670–750 THz) and consequently can be easily "described in math."

    If you want to say that no existing color space can accurately render every possible shade of purple, on the other hand, that may very well be true. I'm not familiar enough with color spaces to say.

  • somewhat unrelated question. I've been studying camera movement lately. We all the slow motion shots mostly handheld? thanks.