November 3rd

Vitaliy_Kiselev

As you know, many people wait for this day, hoping to see 8k, transparent 3d, 18 stops camera from Canon and another announcment from Red (now with 2050 release date).

Please post here your expectations and bets on features and prices.

fatpig

I dont get it... can you post a link to hint what you're talking about?

No_SuRReNDeR

Personally, I thinking Canon is going to announce a full frame interchangeable lens video solution that has the image quality of a 5dm2 utilizing a full frame sensor, better ailising/less moire with 4:2:2 color space. It will be Full HD not 4k though...though it will have 1080p60..... It will also have the video features we love like built in ND filters and XLR inputs and it will be priced at around $8500 body only. I think Canon is smart enough to make a non-DSLR that can use its glass and they have proven with XF305 for example that they understand the color space importance as well as the importance of 60p.

Red however is going issue a release date for the Scarlet of 2082 and it will cost a mere $80000000, which wont be allot in 2082 for a 3k camera!

disneytoy

Canon will release the 5D Mark 3. 1080p 60. GOP1 (like Driftwood). Better audio support. Much advanced autofocus during video. Very high clean ISOs using the Digit 5+ 2 processors. Clean HDMI-SDI output 10-bit. Plus 2 new video lenses. But won't be available until February.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@fatpig

You can dig into our News aggregator to find out.
To be short - Canon want to announce something in Hollywood, Red also plan to make some announcment.

PixCanFly

Canon will humble Red.

NickBen

COUNTERPOINT:

I think the bigger day is 1 year later Nov 3rd in 2012... when the reality settles in that these are nice tools but don't define your limitless vision or creativity.

Let me explain. I think maybe the most important thing to come out tomorrow is NOT resolution or Depth of Field or framerates or sensor size or dynamic range or 3D...
but INSTEAD maybe about what compression methods:
10bit broadcast CODEC in 4:2:2 Colorspace, RAW or non-RAW uncompressed

I think we are now on an annual train of never ending camera body feature increases in the aforementioned list, so if you choose to own, you're 1 year away from becoming "obsolete" to the minds of many spec chasers.

After all the claims, the shootouts, the benchmarks, the tons of test videos, 1 year later when the reality settles in and we see in the end they are all useable tools and AFFORDABLE to rent or own, it will become about the Artists again?

Of course a day celebrating Artists doesn't sell gear, but I guess we have 364 other days to think about that...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@NickBen

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams/story/the_future_of_technology_is_you/

B3Guy

my bet is on a more expensive non-DSLR pro camera. I feel there's maybe a 50/50 chance it will be more than 1080p. If it is this pro cam, all the standard crap up to 60p for sure, intra codec, 10bit, and all the XLR etc. goodies that come with a non-DSLR form factor. As far as anything full frame, it seems unlikely that anything but a DSLR will get that treatment, but that's just my 2c.

For all of those actually able to afford whatever Canon throws out, I hope this is a really great camera whatever it is. For me, I can't afford any of their stuff.

HillTop1

VK crashes both the parties with Ptool 4, provides 1080 60p, clean hdmi 4:2:2, iDyanmic hack, and spanning fix for all high bite rates on a $800 body camera. Now that would be cool lol

Elenion

To me is a super35 (not fullframe 'cause i think 60p to be not a good choice in this format) 4k, i-frame, 11.5 latitude, 60p, 4:4:4 10 bit only by sdi or hdmi, red/dslr like formfactor, antialialising filter. I don't know if it'll be global shuttered but i don't think so. 8.999 euros

NickBen

@Vitaliy_Kiselev Excellent link.

Same thing happened in Pro Audio in the late 90's-early 00's, where 24 bit 192kHz was pushed on Professionals to upgrade their equipment, but the final master PCM sound quality was not enough difference compared to 96kHz to justify the difference in file sizes and processing power, especially when you consider consumer-end playback systems and listening environments

10 years later, we are still mostly using 24 bit 96kHz audio, just with better sounding converters, NOT higher resolution converters. Many big studios went out of business as starving artists can now record for themselves, everywhere and anytime at 24 bit 96kHz with wonderful ambient sound on location.

There's a great post on DVXUSER from combatentropy at the bottom of the page showing side-by-side the rolling shutter issues from the Great Camera Shootout 2011 with some very expensive cameras not doing so well:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?261743-Rumor-Canon-4k-super35-camera/page58

Next time someone says something about 1080p not being enough resolution, I'd show that example about how resolution didn't help there. CCD technology is far superior in motion tests there.

I'd be happy with RAW at 10 bit 4:2:2 and global shutter on a Panasonic GH2 upgrade at 1080p until the next 8K broadcast standard becomes stone... oh well, I can dream.

Hallvalla

Jannard is acting like his Scarlet announcement will be more exciting than the hype they've already put out there about it. So, what could that be?

Pretty sure they'll announce the fixed lens - probably marketing towards the doc shooters. Still think this one will be 2/3 sensor, etc.

Where I think they'll make a splash is the other version. Somewhere between the fixed scarlet and low end Epic. Bigger sensor, body only - maybe with a really high FPS 300+. I think the real wow he's been waiting to launch is an encompassing RED workflow package, something they haven't talked about like partnerships with Apple/Adobe/Avid. 12K.

I'm not expecting a whole lot beyond what they've talked about - which is good shit already - I think the results are one of the main benefits they feature.

danyyyel

I hope Canons come with 2 camera, using the sensor and base image quality as a reference. The higher end model that has been discussed for about $ 10 000 + and lower end model at around $ 5000/7000. The high-end model could get all the goodies like 444, future 4k output, hd-sdi, 12 bit etc. and a base model with only 2k output and 10 bit 4.2.2, hdmi but with the same DR. It would be a true upgrade path for all their dslr users that are more into video.

They have been talking a lot lately of only a $ 10000 to $ 15000 Alexa like image quality wise Canon camera. The Alexa being the champion of DR, I think it will very high dynamic range. I hope that the rumor of the second lower end AF-100/Fs100 competitor is true also. It would be closer to a true upgrade for the DSLR crowd. They just need to put at least 10 bit and 4.2.2 something you can see as an upgrade not just in terms of functionality but image quality also. They can make this market their own and I hope that they grab it. No consumer level avchd codec in a $ 5000 body should be the order of the day, fuck we are in 2011, car were suppose to fly, remember.

As for RED, I am fed up with them. So when they announce that November 3 will be their biggest launch, gives some hint that things have changed, that what was good before is no more now etc hyping and hyping, now what they are saying to the wild speculation they themselves have generated, to calm down and be a bit realistic. For example, people have been speculating that it could be S35, so red is 3 years late for their 2/3 camera and they are going to conceive a new one in less than 3 month. What a joke of a company communication. Look at the example above in the great camera shoot out on the red camera rolling shutter, tell Jim to fix that before hyping his 5k camera.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?261743-Rumor-Canon-4k-super35-camera/page58

P.s would like to see the noise of his 3k 2/3 camera ?

LPowell

@NickBen - "10 years later, we are still mostly using 24 bit 96kHz audio..."

Unless you're planning on transcoding to 44.1kHz, 96kHz is gratuitous bandwidth. 24-bit, OTOH, makes all the difference in headroom.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@LPowell

In my mind all current audio equipment used for ADC is wastly outdated.
We must see special variable high speed amplifier and high quality 24bit ADC in one.
So, in result we'll have 24bit data with special synchronized channel for amplifier settings.
No proper level selection to avoid clipping, no limiters, etc.

mozes

Canon ... just a highend cam for pro use.
Red.... well lets hope they do what they did say years ago
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7678/redscarlet.jpg

No_SuRReNDeR

@mozes everything changes :(...
@B3Guy well maybe not Full-frame but I bet its at least APS-C .

johnnym

I'd like a 2030 release date for the Red.

For the Canon i'd like something like the quality of the hacked GH2 but 4K and not more expensive than a 7D.

Dream on .. (if the current progress continues, a Red Epic won't be worth more than 2000$ in 2015 anyway)

stip

Lots of RED haters here :)

pedro

I hate to say this but usually when something is this hyped up (Canon and Red) , its a virtual guarantee to end up being anti-climactic. I hope I am wrong, I want to be wrong, but I probably won't be.

But to give both companies credit I think Red revolutionized the top end of the market (100k camcorders) and forced them to use bigger sensors (not 2/3 inch but 35mm sized) , higher bit rates (not 140 mbps but 800) and cheaper prices (not 150-250k but 65k), while Canon has revolutionized the bottom end of the market with the Dslrs which forced the use of at least bigger sensors in the lower level camcorders (fs100, f3 etc). That led to Panasonic making the Lumix Gh1 and Gh2, and then ultimately the fantastic work by Vitaliy and other people here.

My bet is we will finally see the specs on the Red Scarlet tomorrow and I can only hope they will not be so lame as to release the Scarlet as a fixed lens system. If it is at least 3k capable and given a pl mount for around 10k or less then at least its a good addition to the market, and comparable to the Ikonoskop Acam d2, but it will probably be a fixed lens, low bitrate and just 2K resolution if even that.

Frankly I am looking forward to seeing the news tomorrow but I'm betting on being disappointed.

I am actually looking forward more to playing with the next firmware release for the gh2.

stoney

Ian_T

My guess....aint nuthin gon-happen!!

stoney

A camera with an optional attachable box that would make the whole thing looking like a pro cam.

qwerty123

The opening post on this thread by @Vitaliy is hilarious.

So, in that spirit, my prediction is that Canon will announce a camera that will actually scan your brain, determine whether or not you have a story worth telling cinematically, and then make it for you. :-)

PixCanFly

What about a Martin Scorsese signature series of Canon DSLR :) Raging RED bull.
Or perhaps Martin Scorsese will announce that you don't need anything more than a 5Dmk2 to make a good film.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/canon-red-avid-announcements-256891

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