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Panasonic LX100 camera topic
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  • Jpegs are processed RAW and thus do not necessarily reflect sensor IQ and certainly not color "clarity"; they also reflect the in-camera settings (such as NR and sharpening) and the in-camera jpeg processing. Many users of the LX100 camera report that when they process RAW photos in an editor they get much better photos than the in-camera jpegs (this could be also true for the comparison cameras). To assess what the sensor can do for stills, one should start with RAW files. For comparison the settings - WB, saturation, sharpness, NR -in an editor from the RAW stills should be the same, or perhaps what are best for the camera. Of course, I do not really care about the sensor, if the sensor sampling/processing for video is poor.

  • @markr041

    Lets not take these comparisons too seriously. I just want to give some perspective where different cameras are at this moment. This comparison was about sensor IQ, not video. GH4 was using high quality prime like always in Imaging Resource. I think that a JPG photo can give us an idea of sensor quality. Not dyn range but noise and color clarity.

  • 2.This forum is about video; the jpeg, compressed stills tell us almost nothing about video performance. Many Canon cameras take great stills, and really bad, low resolution artifact-laden video.

    It is not really correct, any good stills are also welcome.

  • I do not see the point of this comparison of jpeg stills for videographers:

    1. If you want to see what any camera can really do for stills, you shoot RAW. Looking at jpegs is not sufficient. But who cares anyway.

    2. This forum is about video; the jpeg, compressed stills tell us almost nothing about video performance. Many Canon cameras take great stills, and really bad, low resolution artifact-laden video. A recent set of reviews showed (if you compare performance) that the LX100 as a video camera has higher resolution and better low-light performance than the NX1 in video. And it fits in your pocket.

    NX1 review:

    http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/samsung-nx1-digital-camera-review

    LX100 review:

    http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/panasonic-lx100-digital-camera-review

    Look at the science sections of the NX1 and LX100 reviews for video specs.

  • I would have chosen the correct ordering as well. It is pretty clear from the images, and it makes sense. I assume you took the sample images from Imaging Resource? I typically just use their Comparator tool to compare two cameras, but...you can only see two at once. Thanks for posting all 3 in one image.

    The NX1 is an interesting new camera, but..even though it is 'only' an APS-C size sensor, it's a BIG camera with BIG lenses (if you want good lenses). It should yield 'better' image quality. But...at the trade off of being bigger and heavier. The LX100 will fit in a jacket pocket. Not so the NX1, so...this is really Apples to Oranges?

  • @Vesku: Am I assuming right that the GH4 and NX1 pictures were taken using prime lenses? Using a zoom lens with similar focal range would allow for a fairer comparison.

  • The right answer is: 1. NX1, 2. LX100, 3 GH4.

    IQ seems to be comparable to sensor size and resolution. LX100 is muddier than GH4. NX1 has less noise than others even when it has the highest pixel density. The back illuminated sensor seems to help.

    Upscaling is not reducing IQ, it just shows than 12Mpix is worse than 16Mpix or 28Mpix.

  • Interesting test but wouldn't the upscaling reduce detail? That would point to #1 being the NX1 as it has more detail. #2 being the most saturation

  • This would have been my guess as well. Lenses are not specified, but (1) is sharper than (3), which is sharper as (2).

  • not sure but :

    1: NX1

    2: LX100

    3: GH4

  • Sensor comparison LX100, GH4, Samsung NX1 at iso1600. Can you tell which is which? Pana photos are upscaled to Nx1 size.

    all-1600.jpg
    2339 x 1454 - 1M
  • Battery testing "original vs. 3rd-party" finished for now. The contestants:

    The original Panasonic battery claims to have a capacity of 1025mAh*7.2V = ~7.4Wh. Its retail price in Germany, when bought directly from the Panasonic shop is 70 €, when bought from the cheapest online shop its price is currently 48 €.

    The Patona battery claims to have a capacity of 750mAh*7.2V = ~5.4Wh. Its retail price when bought directly from the Patona online shop is 13 €.

    Test setup: I measured the time that I could permanently shoot video at 1080p50 with manual focus on a tripod, display on. Both batteries were newly bought and were charged with the Panasonic supplied charger.

    The findings:

    The original Panasonic battery operated with "3 bars on the battery indicator" for 110 minutes, then 23 minutes with "2 bars", then 25 minutes with "1 bar", then the indicator turned flashing red and the recording stopped soon thereafter. So in total 158 minutes.

    The Patona battery lasted 100 minutes with "3 bars", then 5 minutes with "2 bars", then 2 minutes with "one bar", then the indicator turned red-flashing and soon thereafter the camera stopped recording and shut itself off. So in total 107 minutes.

    So the Panasonic original battery lasted 48% longer, at a 538% (Panasonic shop) or 369% (cheapest web shop) higher price, or in other words: You get 3.6 times or 2.5 times less battery capacity per money unit when buying Panasonic original batteries. (There are also even cheaper 3rd-party batteries available on the market, but Patona batteries were one of the few products guaranteed to contain overheating and overload protection circuits.)

    For me the preference is clear: I'll certainly not pay the outragous prices Panasonic asks. And since I have to change the battery before each dive, anyway, I don't miss the higher capacity and longer "power running out" warning period of the original.

  • @markr041 @karl Same here with Watson batteries. Very decent battery duration, but as soon as it hits 1 bar you need to swap batteries very quickly because it can and will die any second.

  • For the majority of people – mildly enthusiastic photographers, holiday snappers, families and the like – again, it’s going to be more camera than they need. In fact, I think it’s going to be somewhat intimidating because of the apparent lack of automation and unexpected results if one of the dials inadvertently gets knocked off position. It will be a clear step up from the cameraphone or compact and have more than enough resolution for Facebook or email. For the serious amateur coming from an older camera or smaller format, the size and level of control will delight and liberate. For those coming from current-generation M4/3, performance will be as-expected, but again, the form factor will be liberating – possibly liberating enough to just pair it with a GM5 and say 75/1.8 or 35-100/2.8 for telephoto needs, and be done completely. Travellers on a serious weight budget will love it.

    http://blog.mingthein.com/2014/11/12/opinion-review-the-panasonic-lx100-leica-d-lux-109/

  • This 4K LX100 video has plenty of people movement (sorry for the realistic colors, though :)).

  • @MarcioK I agree, I don't mind grading to get that feel, and that's one reason I like old lenses, although the convenience of the LX100 is very appealing. I guess I'll wait until I see a video with the LX100 that has that kind of shots, as pretty much all I've seen so far is more like landscape with little to no movement. @karl I've been doing some research on bitrates after what you have said and I put my eye on the RX10, it might be worth to consider!

  • @karl I had the same experience with "Watson" battery clones (from B&H): total battery life is ok, but after 3 bars the battery dies pretty quickly. Caught me by surprise (but no more). The OEM Panasonic battery does not do this; there is a gradual changing of the bars.

  • The battery tests take longer than expected... which is somehow a good thing :-). I measure using 1080p50 recording with manual focus on a tripod, display on of course. The first Patona battery lasted 1h:40m with "3 bars", then 5 minutes with "2 bars", then 2 minutes with "one bar", then the indicator turned red-flashing and soon thereafter the camera stopped recording and shut itself off. Next test will be with the Panasonic original battery for comparison... will take until tomorrow :-)

  • @vulgatron about the "cinematic" video that you posted from the GX7: part is caused by the vintage lens used, old lens are less "clinical" than the new ones, and with less contrast. But especially the colors are the result from grading (the author says in the comments that he graded the footage with Colorista).

  • ok, thanks.

  • @vulgatron: I cannot recommend another camera in the same price range that offers better 1080p50.

  • @karl Thanks for your notes. Not wanting to go off-topic but would you suggest other camera in the same price range that offer better 50p? I believe the GX7 has the same codec right? I really like the 4k image of the LX100 and appreciate the lens it has, but it would be my one camera and I'm afraid I might be compromising some things that I might miss later on.

  • @vulgatron: Regarding "good 1080p with 50 or 60p": The LX100 is crippled to <= 28MBit/s for all video modes except 4k. So while the 4k recording (at 100 MBit/s) brings marvellous results, the 1080p modes provide mush and compression artefacts whenever there is significant movement in your scenery. Thus I would not recommend the LX100 if you mostly want to record 1080p50.

    Regarding 24p: My EU model allows to record 4k in both 25p and 23.976p or 24000/1001 fps - very near to 24p and usually a problem, but I think it should be mentioned that "24p" on the LX100 is not precisely "24p", there are other cameras that do record with precisely 24 fps.

    Regarding SD-cards: I've got only SanDisk Ultra 95MB/s 64GB cards to test with, which I used with my GH2, and they work just fine for 4k recording.

  • True, I've had on my mind super bright daylight... but I haven't said it, I guess I'll have to buy a few different ones then. Thanks for the link! I'll see which one of those I can find around.