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GH4 + NINJA1 by HDMI
  • Luis1964Luis1964

    Yesterday I've received my new GH4. I'm not sure that my ninja 1 is able to rec 4.2.2 10 bit. I've take bouth enclosed files; first of them I've choose HDMI 4.2.2 8bit and the second 4.2.2. 10 bit. Anyone is able to confirm me if they are differents? (8 bit and the other one 10 bit files). I can't see any difference when I'm grading them.

    4228bit

    https://www.mediafire.com/?q26a1gg9rm4lmbb

    42210bit

    https://www.mediafire.com/?mjaz8sddc47y8j9

  • 25 Replies sorted by
  • mrbillmrbill

    @thorn - sorry, I don't know. Been focussed on atomos products.

  • thornthorn

    On just the Ninja line, or ANY external recorder?

  • mrbillmrbill

    Sorry to double post this, but I'm really angry. Confirmation from Atomos that the f%cked up hdmi output on the GH4 will NOT allow you to record 10bit422 1080_30p/25p onto any of the Ninja line.

  • mrbillmrbill

    Here's the 'how to' from atomos. They'll be posting a video shortly..

    GH425P_Settings.jpg
    1849 x 262 - 68K
  • mrbillmrbill

    Atomos have just posted their 30p/25p solution, which is to select avchd, 10bit out, but you must go into record on the GH4 to enable pull down on the ninja.

  • mrbillmrbill

    @RRRoger -if you set your GH4 to avchd, and your hdmi output to 10bit 422, you'll get 1080p 10bit 422 going to your ninja in a 60i/50i stream, which the ninja will be able to pull down to give 30p/25p. I think that's going to look better than anything the GH4 can do internally. Would you be able to test that out for us?

  • arumarum

    @RRRoger Have you looked at the tests by @Luis1964 or carried out your own tests? What I see in Luis's tests makes me think that the external recording are better (they look better to me). If you have carried out your own tests, it would be great if you could share them, specially if your results contradict the results of Luis.

  • RRRogerRRRoger

    There is a free download for MediaInfo. It will give you all the information you need on your video files.

    I have a ninja II and it will only record 720 P50 or 60, 1080 P24 or 30. Why bother when the GH4 internal 4k, 1080 P50 and 1080 P60 files are so much better?

  • mrbillmrbill

    I did some checking of the hdmi output on my GH4, and can confirm that the camera is outputting a 50i stream when in avchd 1080 25p mode, and 10bit 422 is selected (also good for a 60i output when 1080 30p is enabled). This means we should be able to record 10bit 422 1080p 25p/30p on the atomos range of recorders, as they are able to perform pulldown with an interlaced output. Is anybody with a ninja able to confirm? Sadly, we're not going to be able to do 4k internally and 10bit over hdmi at the same time.

  • caveportcaveport

    @Luis1964 Can you do a test with a scene with lots of color? It should show the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 more clearly.

  • RRRRRRRR

    Interesting. Banding looks worse from 4k or more apparent, more compression artifacts too, or more apparent. Very detailed!

    This sort of strengthens my belief that the best stuff you can get from the gh4 is getting pretty close to the desired look in-cam.. shooting 4k.

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    Here you have the file recorded by ninja (1920x1080) when I've set GH4 in 4k mode and HDMI output to 4.2.2 8 bits. Despite to be in ninja fullHD you can notice an improvement.

    http://www.mediafire.com/watch/mogpbvfmzjujvhc/00060.MOV

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    Here you have the original files: 24fps

    a) From sd card GH4 (4.2.0 8 bits) http://www.mediafire.com/watch/k8b1bs4be5bc4ge/P1000176.MOV

    b) Same sequence of sd card GH4 (recorded at same time) but here's the file recorded by ninja with the output HDMI 4.2.2 8 bits http://www.mediafire.com/watch/bfm84560pa953o4/00058.MOV

    c) Recorded by ninja with the output HDMI 4.2.2 10 bits http://www.mediafire.com/watch/vy6u5fubpmk1ffb/00059.MOV

    • @RRRR, In fact, is not possible record internally while transmitting 10 bit 4:2:2. The sequence "c" has been recorded after a, b sequence.
  • RRRRRRRR

    @Luis1964

    I'm curious; is there any improvement to moiré / aliasing with the external recorder over internal recording? I couldn't really tell from your tests.

  • arumarum

    @luis1964 Thanks so much for the test. I had actually been waiting for a while for someone to do one like this. Unless something better comes along between now and when I have the money, this has convinced me that my next camera will be a GH4 with some external recorder attached.

  • RRRRRRRR

    As far as I remember, you are not supposed to be able to record internally while transmitting 10 bit 4:2:2 out of the camera?

  • mrbillmrbill

    @luis - can I ask what your frame rate, codec and hdmi output settings were? Thanks

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    No arum. I can see the improvement using the ninja, but no difference between 8 or 10 bits with files from ninja. I've add the comparison but now using ninja in bouth:

  • arumarum

    There's definitely less banding and more shadow in the ninja side, but that is an 8 bit 420 H264 to 10 bit 422 ProRes comparison. Were you eventually able to find any difference between the 10 and 8 bit 422 ProRes files?

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    I've made this test to see the difference, despite of my 8 bits monitor. I think it's enought:

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    I agree. I see no difference between the two files

  • arumarum

    I am not a real expert, but I checked on resolve and the metadata indicates both files are 10 bit (you can still record 8 bit colour in a 10 bit capable file though). The histogram for both look pretty smooth (8 bit 420 usually shows sudden valleys and peaks, but I guess 8bit 422 is just that much nicer) and I played around a bit and with my monitor I saw no difference (got amazing detail back from the shadows in both, bot not much form the highlights), but that's the weak point here, since I just have one of those high gamut monitors, no 10 bit.

  • mrbillmrbill

    @Luis - you might be interested in this

    http://forum.atomos.com/showthread.php?52685-GH4-and-Ninja-Blade-Few-recording-formats-available-to-be-read-by-Blade

    Sorry it doesn't answer the 8/10 bit question

  • Luis1964Luis1964

    Thanks for your quick response but without discussing about the benefits of working with 8 bit and 10 bit real, even with 8-bit monitor, I would like someone with the right equipment will check if really one of the shots was recorded at 8 bit and other one at 10 bit

  • AusboyAusboy

    Haven't downloaded yet but do you have an 8 Bit or 10 bit monitor? If it is 8 bit ( and many are ) then you are unlikely to notice much difference I am sure.

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