Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV on Telegram or Facebook! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
Please, support PV!
It allows to keep PV going, with more focus towards AI, but keeping be one of the few truly independent places.
Where are we going
  • As you can see, countries implement various "austerity measures", mostly focused on middle class.

    They also constantly like to talk how it'll be "road to the future" and "proper solution".

    Thing is that you must look at their target, not on their words.

    With complex division of labor and rising energy and resources costs any cutting result not only in short time problems, but huge long time problems as well.

    1. Big amount of specialised, skilled workers lose their job each month.
    2. All other now has less free money after all necessary payments (energy costs, taxes rise, medical expenses, etc).
    3. Hence can not allow some extra things and services. Next month go to Pt 1.

    Careful look at this algorithm show you real target - elimination of middle class.

    Thing is that this also mean huge degradation and big reduction of complexity of labor division.

    But this guys do not really care. Of course, they'll find something to distract people, like.. of course, major war, where they could die with bravery,

  • 32 Replies sorted by
  • Why do they want to eliminate the middle class? Historically speaking, destroying the middle class is a death knell for civilization.

  • Why do they want to eliminate the middle class?

    Right now we do not know complete picture of new things they try to build.

    But middle class in its current form is not really required for global corporations.

    Most probably they'll be going same route replacing normal work and salaries with special donations and transfers.

    Main goal - current elite want to stay alive, and preferably, stay on top.

    My understanding is that any other solution, while being much better fo most people, won't allow most elite members to save their life.

  • One version of this theory, is that the way the elite class maintains its tiny membership is through elite universities.

  • One version of this theory, is that the way the elite class maintains its tiny membership is through elite universities.

    I remember one research looking at elite members in France. Almost all finished two or three universities, and not only this, but certain specialities (law, economics, etc).

  • Yet it is not said how all this will end. Middle class members have a huge access to knowledge through the internet, like never before in history. Every common person can know almost everything about almost everything, from making bombs to construct airplanes. It is also possible to collect through the internet raw data about local and global situation like never before. I am pretty sure that people like Robespierre did not know as much about their world as we know about ours.Yet they changed their society. More important, middle man has now the power to elaborate those data thanks to cheap computers, which give him an unprecedented power. Moreover, people can talk each other all over the world real time, and so share informations, ideas, proposals. It is not said elites will get their goals. It is possible that when shit will start really fly from everywhere to everywhere new leaders will emerge, with new ideas and new dreams for the good of the majority. We know it happened other times in history. It is called revolution.

    So maybe it will not necessarily happen like in the Genesis song Firth of Fifth:

    "... and so with gods and men, the sheep remain inside their pain, though many time they saw the way to leave"

  • @Nino_Ilacqua

    Middle class members have a huge access to knowledge through the internet, like never before in history. Every common person can know almost everything about almost everything, from making bombs to construct airplanes.

    Here I do not agree 100%. As Internet is biggest illusion.
    Any good and useful information is hard to get and it cost good money, even more than before.

    As for common person, as guy who constantly see this "common persons" who sit in internet few hours a day, I can assure you that 99% of them have zero intentions to aquire any knowledge (if you do not understand under knowledge tits size of third girlfriend of some rocks star)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    LOL for the tits size :) Nice humor! Anyway, I hope that when troubles will get really big, many people will suddenly get interest in the real things of their life. At that point it will not necessary that everyone has a deep understandings about problems and solutions, it is sufficient that a few very smart and good people appear in society and a lot of hungry people go around without to know what to do. A new revolution will happen and things will be better. (For a while, of course)

    I really believe that the criminal plans of elites can be defeated. It will be the desperation that they will cause which will kill them in the end. Marx told it, didn't he?

  • At that point it will not necessary that everyone has a deep understandings about problems and solutions, it is sufficient that a few very smart and good people appear in society and a lot of hungry people go around without to know what to do.

    Nothing will hcange and all mass media is under very tight control.

    And your statement is as follows (is I'll remove modern internet related words) - after people become hungry in London, in the deserts of Mongolia smart new people will appear, they won't know english, but by magic they'll transfer the knowledge, all will know abou this people instantly and they will lead the mob.

    Looks like fairy tale made by some idoit while he was using heavy narcotics.

    Marx told it, didn't he?

    Do not remember anything like it.
    Also it is very good idea to understand that Marx wrote theories that had big problems with practice and that had been quite specific for his time.

  • To understand why they eliminate middle class you have to look at the history. The problem with capitalism is that its profit seeking nature needs constant growth and expansion which will eventually devour planetary resources. It needed to be stopped. "They" understood it in 19th century to which Marx and Maltus belong. That's why socialism was invented and working class revolution was proposed as a cure for capitalism's ever growing planetary cancer.

    But when the marxist project sponsored by some financial elite circles came to power in Russia that scared the shit out of the capitalist elites. They understood that it was serious and they could lose everything they had in a blink of an eye. That's why the INVENTED middle class as a solution. There was no such thing in the end of 19th century. There were rich ruling elite and poor men working for them in sweatshops on a minimum wage like Chinese these days. That's the logic behind capitalism - maximize profit, pay workers less - gain more. But then there was Soviet Union that turned Russia from a country with 90% or rural illiterate population into the 2nd largest industrialized economy of the world under a few decades of Stalin's rule and gave free education to everyone. Of course the Western capitalist elite needed to compete against that that out of the fear of revolution. The solution was simple: we would turn that poor Chine.... err... American worker having nothing into an OWNER. We would share some of our profits with working class and give them a house and a car so that they feel more like us and they would have something to lose. And we would scare them with commies that could come and deprive them from PROPERTY that they now own. That was the idea behind the middle class. But originally it was NEVER meant to be there.

    Now there's no Soviet Union as a competitor. So why keep this class of small owners? Why share profits with them? For what purpose? Just for them not to revolt? Fuck that, they'll hire some PMC guys and put the rebels into FEMA camps, that's cheaper.

    So, capitalist elite needs no middle class. So does financial elite that wants to shut down capitalism. And it it imminent. It's coming. Rather sooner than later. Because capitalism is a planetary dead-end, it only leads to resource depletion, wars and global catastrophy. They don't want that.

    But no one in their right mind wants to lose a house and become a bum. That's why middle class needs to be fleeced by trickery. There's gonna be a shock, a "crisis" that they will blame it upon. It is crisis that came and took your house and car. These are the greedy Wall street guys to blame, yadayada. That's why Ben prints money like they're going outta style and buys mortgage securities. They collect all possible debt they can collect. So if you don't understand the logic of history and how current events fit into it - you're in trouble. You're gonna get fleeced. If you have any debt and your house is mortgaged it's not yours. It's gonna be theirs in the nearest future. They did it in 2008, they're gonna do the same now, only on a MUCH larger scale.

    So, it is true, middle class is doomed. There will be the super-rich and the super-poor, and that's it.

    PS Invest in physical precious metals guys if you have something to invest, that's the only chance to maintain your wealth in the upcoming turmoil. Sorry, if it's kinda long but there no way to understand it unless by analyzing a very long-run, few centuries long agenda ;)

  • @zigizigi

    Quite original view :-)

    I do not agree with "invest in physical precious metals guys", as I much more prefer making more children, and investing in education and health.

    As I'll have time I'll make big wiki post with my proposals for this unmanagable situation. For current elites destinies, it'll be much worse than socialism, much worse.

  • @zigizigi The middle class is not something invented at the end of the 19th century. The middle class was clearly part of ancient Greek life going back to 700 bc. Ancient Egypt, the civilizations of the Fertile Crescent. Thousand of years before the birth of Christ.

  • The middle class was clearly part of ancient Greek life going back to 700 bc. Ancient Egypt, the civilizations of the Fertile Crescent. Thousand of years before the birth of Christ.

    Can you elaborate this in more details?

    Where middle class was in Greece, Egipt, etc, with numbers and percents in total population compared with simple farmars and workers who worked like mad 12 hours a day to get basic food for family.

  • @stonebat

    If you'll play with definitions as author of referenced post did (to attract visitors, really) you can make any conclusions you need.

  • So can you.

  • So can you.

    LOL.

    I just do not post things to play with definitions and do not do this to attract visitors.
    This is all the difference.

    I am just old expirienced meerkat looking with big eyes into trailer that is going exactly into huge rock.

    People inside trailer think that it is very important situation and it is bad.

    Jackals don't think so, they just wait for food.

    So am I.

  • Where middle class was in Greece, Egipt, etc, with numbers and percents in total population compared with simple farmars and workers who worked like mad 12 hours a day to get basic food for family.

    You won't find many historians saying there was no middle class until the 19th century.

    Problem is, "Middle Class" is a fuzzy term with no agreed upon definition other than the social class between the upper and lower class. Mitt Romney says it's people making 250k/year. Modern Americans can't even agree on it and the issue gets really muddy when you start talking about antiquity. I think one thing that categorizes Middle Class of ancient times is that its members work for a living -- versus a noble class that doesn't. Modern day elites on the other hand also often work right? And sometimes modern elites work for more than 12 hours a day. I'm sure Mitt Romney is no stranger to 12 hour days. So the comparisons break down quickly. In some instances in ancient history, your definition of simple farmers who work 12 hour days may in fact qualify as middle class since the simple Bronze Age farmer 1) isn't a slave 2) isn't starving and 3) owns land (maybe). The Bronze age elite might have a life expectancy of 45 years, have rotten teeth, and be illiterate. That doesn't sound like Mr. Romney now does it?

    But to say there weren't at least 3 distinct social levels in ancient societies seems like an argument someone would make who has never opened a history book. In Ancient Greece there were merchants, land owners, skilled tradesmen, scholars, and religious authorities. Some had voting rights some didn't. There were slaves, freemen laborers and royalty as well. Are we really going to say all these groups should be categorized in two crude social classes?

    I don't have charts, if I did, I'd personally be suspect of them because of the centuries gone by and way historians piece together the historical record. It'd typically be speculative at best and based on the archaeology and fragmentary nature of cultural artifacts.

  • @VK According to you, I must be one of those inside the trailer heading into huge rock. Take this with a grain of salt. You gotta live so much longer to witness actual changes. At the moment you think you are the old experienced meerkat looking with big eyes into the trailer, prolly you are in a bigger trailer.

  • @stonebat The problem with that essay is that in America and other places you can't own land. You can only rent it from the government. See what happens when you stop paying your property taxes.

  • I don't agree 100% with the blogger either :)

  • At the moment you think you are the old experienced meerkat looking with big eyes into the trailer, prolly you are in a bigger trailer.

    Do not worry, I am not :-)

  • "Middle-class" can be redefined to meet the requirements of any argument, including the age of the pyramids, but societies which offer literacy, food and energy security, some measure of leisure time, and upward mobility to populations of tens of millions is a very recent development in human history. It has no precedent in the ancient world or earlier centuries, though historians typically trace its origins to the development of merchant classes and urban society.

    In the American variety, government policy once ensured that a capable person with a high school diploma could live at levels of comfort inconceivable in previous periods, and without an unbridgeable divide between himself and the very rich. A CEO might earn a large multiple of the average company salary, but not orders of magnitude more. That CEO might also expect to see marginal tax rates well above 50%, which went into redistribution and infrastructure.

    But that period is long over, as we all know. The highest profits are no longer to be found in the developed world, so there's much less reluctance to impose "market discipline" on the formerly middle-class, because the material acquisition habits of such people are no longer the drivers of wealth for international investors. The push, among the American oligarchs, to sharply reduce and privitize social welfare programs like social security and Medicare is an attempt to raid the last bastion of value that the American middle-class possesses. There's the strong incentive to reduce their own taxes and to give themselves investment security by propping up private markets with formerly public funds. And the private management of these programs offers a bonanza in management fees to the financial services and insurances industries. But there's no other apparent source of wealth in the American middle-class, since other people will work for so much less.

  • Do not worry, I am not :-)

    This is the era of uncertainty. If I have no doubt at all, I sense something is prolly wrong. That is I feel uncomfortable if I think I can see anything so clear.

  • "Middle-class" can be redefined to meet the requirements of any argument, including the age of the pyramids, but societies which offer literacy, food and energy security, and upward mobility to populations of tens of millions is a very recent development in human history. It has no precedent in the ancient world or earlier centuries

    I see a few problems here. 1) Ancient societies, as far as I know, rarely, if ever, consisted of tens of millions of people 2) it's only in the industrial age that significant energy requirements are a necessity. Cutting firewood for warmth and cooking isn't an issue typically. Trees remain abundant and accessible. 3) the "lack of unbridgeable divide" is largely a myth. Poor people in the modern world usually are born and die poor. The numbers are not encouraging.

    The reason those things are unprecedented, as you say, is that they're functions of the industrial age. I don't know why anyone should expect the perks and characteristics of industrialization to exist in Bronze Age Greece. It's the Bronze Age afterall!

    But that period is long over, as we all know. The highest profits are no longer to be found in the developed world, so there's much less reluctance to impose "market discipline" on the formerly middle-class, because the material acquisition habits of such people are no longer the drivers of wealth for international investors.

    I don't understand this point. Doesn't the developed world still need TV's and refrigerators? Who buys most of the junk out there?

  • 1) Ancient societies, as far as I know, rarely, if ever, consisted of tens of millions of people

    Exactly; before the existence of mass societies, there was no basis for a middle-class, as we understand the term today and as social scientists define it. Similarly, the conditions for a middle-class don't exist in pre-industrial societies, where almost no one had leisure time and disposable income. You can choose another definition, but then we're no longer talking about the modern notion of "middle-class", applicable to life today.

    I don't understand this point. Doesn't the developed world still need TV's and refrigerators?

    The profit margin on TVs and fridges is very small in the developed world. The big money is in industrialization and resource exploitation in emerging nations and (of course) "financial services" and market manipulation. The oligarchs have discovered they don't really need a prosperous middle-class to make money.

    EDIT: It's worth noting here that while manufacturing jobs enjoy no protectionism from the state -- employers are free to take the jobs abroad, to the lowest bidder -- certain sectors enjoy extraordinary protections. Law, medicine, engineering, financial services, etc. would attract large numbers of highly qualified foreign practitioners willing to work at far lower than prevailing wages, if they were allowed to compete here. But they're not allowed to compete -- these professions have enough political clout to prevent it, and consumers have no choice but to pay the prices demanded by the guild. So the idea that the market necessarily dooms all workers is clearly false. It only dooms workers with no protections from the state.