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Official GH3 deficiencies and whines topic
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Reserved.

    Wiki Page - http://www.personal-view.com/photokina/coverage/gh3-deficiencies

  • 45 Replies sorted by
  • thepalaliasthepalalias
    • Concerns about what the present state of moire/aliasing is and whether it will be improved before release
    • Move away from an MAR sensor
    • Increased crop-factor (tied to MAR)
    • Concerns about whether image will be much softer than the GH2 (or will be tweable both achieve GH2 and other looks)
  • vladnikvladnik

    maybe this can explain some moire/aliasing problems ... http://www.photozone.de/m43/766_pana1235f28?start=1 @12mm 5.78% distortion ... thats bad ... most gh3 videos with aliasing/moire problems we're done with that lens ... French market test , photokina etc ... that lens @12mm is almost fisheye and camera need to do extreme distortion correction ...

  • AstroAstro

    @Vitaliy thanks for the thread

    To me I really think the GH3 footage has lost what looked so good in the GH2, Its hard to put into words, the best I can say right now is its lost a certain organic look. Its now either dull and a bit blunt with slightly murky colors (Genesis) trying to look Filmic (it looks quite good...but not great), or it puts out a sharp videoish and blue/green Sony looking good home video.

    Nothing special..my opinion only of course, but I have studied and created images every day for the last 10 years at least.

    I strongly suspect its the new sensor which I think is a BIG mistake and will cost Panasonic in the long run, the unique spot the GH2 claimed had beautiful aesthetics in video in 24P mainly, and the lack of DR etc...was secondary.

    Why did we not mention this? because probably most of us thought that Panasonic would build on that look, not lose it, now several of us realize that what we liked is gone...and are asking for that back...and to be built on...too late I know, but there it is.

    Now we have a Camera thats trying to compete with Canons and Nikons...in the pro/semi pro stills/video arena. If the indie film-maker sector is soo unprofitable...why is BMD even bothering to build the BMCC? Its a growing sector and they know it, and Panasonic could do really well capitilizing on what the GH2 with the hack did, maybe they still will, but I feel that this is a missed opportunity for them and they have lost their footing.

    So my humble suggestions are:-

    1.Perhaps market the current GH3 as a hybrid camera like the orientated towards stills where the video is good..but not amazing. (Which is what it is anyway)

    2.Make a video version of the GH3 that has the Multi Aspect Sensor, or a new version of the MAS plus 4.2.2, 10 bit etc..and less emphasis on the stills, if BM can do it...why not Panasonic? I believe the BMCC does not even take stills.

  • lenuisiblelenuisible

    I think some of you completely overestimate the percentage of the GH2 sales related to the hack, and even to the video side of the GH2. So why Panasonic should give us 4:2:2 and 10 bits in video instead of a better still camera, and a very good video one ?

    I visit a lumix french forum frequently, and a lot of GH2 users doesn't do that much video, and even fewer will dare hacking their GH2.

    Just for my knowledge, @Vitaliy_Kiselev could you give us the total number of registered posters here ? I think it should be quite close to the number of people who have hacked their lumix camera (as it's easier to download ini files when you're registered). It would give an idea of the number of people really into video with their lumix camera...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev could you give us the total number of registered posters here

    It is > 13000, just look at new members number (in profile URL)

  • OASYSOASYS

    I strongly suspect that G5 is the potential successor of GH2. It just waits for Vitaliy and Driftwood etc. to unleash its full power.:-)

  • NickBenNickBen

    Consider the GH2 Panasonic 1080p DSLR film stock era 2010-2012, $700 limited supply

    I wouldn't use the stock GH2 without hack

    GH2 (HACK) = VINTAGE

    Consider the GH3 Panasonic 1080p DSLR film stock era 2012-2014, $1300 unlimited supply

    GH3 = GH(S)

    (S) = Sony

    I think it simplifies life...

  • meemee

    @Vitaliy, How did I know this much needed thread would be much less active than than the main GH3 thread? Many people just want to be on the main stage with their drama mee thinks ; )

    My biggest three desires are 1) 120fps or better 2) multi aspect 3) Track focus. 422 seems obviously beneficial for Panasonic to include, since it will only offend many euro customers to exclude them from their dreams of producing TV flicks, regardless of whether or not they achieve their dreams.

    Now that I kept with the topic, I will go against the grain of the topic,

    I think it to say the GH3 is a dud because it looks video like is a bit of a misguided qualm, since the GH2 looks video like when it's stock/unhacked. Just like with the GH2, we really will only know what's fully in this toolbox if/when Vitaliy puts in some long hours and unlocks it with the help of some master patch makers. In simplest terms, the GH2 only looks so filmic because of this forum, and the hard work of it's generous members. I want, and expect more out of the GH3 from Panasonic before I will consider purchasing one, but they have nothing to do with image quality. To say it's a dud at this point based on image quality is a dud of a statement.

    PS, I also say throw a video game like pacman on there for the long train ride home after I have used up all my memory cards but still have battery life left. Happens with two GH2 batteries, so it's bound to happen with the extended battery life. I joke... but not really. Give me Pacman, or better yet Miss Pacman !!!

  • tmcattmcat

    @VK My biggest fear for this cam is that it may not even be worth hacking. I noticed in the spec sheet that the GH3 has half the the photo burst rate of the GH2. Now, I am not positive but I think that the burst rate is mainly determined by the headroom the ram/buffer allows. If it's not software crippled, could I safely assume that the buffer space has been halved as well? Assuming of course that that is an accurate statement, would that mean that the camera might not be physically able to cope with a high bitrate encoding hack? Basically my gist is that panasonic has already maxed out the GH3's software relative to its guts... very sorry that this not at all technical, and I am just curious – not trying making any radical statements.

    Thanks for the thread :)

  • fatpigfatpig

    considering TV Production: ( @mee ) it is not entirely correct that GH2 cannot be used for TV. Requirement for TV is still only 720p- and even sometimes only SD. Downsampled 1080p 4:2:0 might well be equivalent to SD 4:4:4 ;) just something to think about.

    In addition to that, german tv flick "nachtschicht" was shot on GH2 720p50. Some way the guy managed to persuade the TV guys :)

  • kazuokazuo

    most times telling the facts to TV execs will get you nothing. But seeing is believing, the German director must have pitched a film to the execs, and they bought the look and feel of GH2. Not everybody is like BBC, sticklers for hard technical facts

  • peternappeternap

    @mee I agree with most of what you said except for parts of the TV specs. Actually, if they want it, they can use it.

    I've been back and forth on the GH3 now and sanity has finally started to creep back in me. The truth is, until some real people use it in real situations AND it is hacked and tested, I have no idea if I want one or not.

    Time will tell.

  • LPowellLPowell

    Regarding 4:2:0 versus 4:2:2 video: The reason broadcasters want 4:2:2 video format is for interlaced 1080i broadcasts. Never mind that it's not difficult to convert 4:2:0 1080p into 4:2:2 1080i, they'll still want you to deliver 4:2:2 1080p (or 4:2:2 1080i).

    You can easily satisfy broadcast requirements with some simple post-production on your original video files. When you import your files into an NLE with at least 10-bit color depth, you're effectively working in 4:4:4 color (or even better, 32-bit floating point). It's good practice to do a technical color grade on your footage anyway, if only to insure that its gamut is broadcast-legal. When you're done with post, export your footage in 4:2:2 color depth and your client will be satisfied.

  • meemee

    @Peternap @LPowell I hear you both, and honestly I don't personally need 4:2:2 as I doubt it is an issue here. I see all sorts of handycams paraded into shots on NHK (not sure why they are so fond of showing camera men in the shots). I just figure the European folks are already paying nearly double for the cam, Panasonic could surely sell more cameras by simply giving those people what they feel they need (however real the need actually is).

    and to Peternap specifically, I definitely have the same view as to whether I want one. I mean, of course at a core level I want one, but truthfully the price keeps it out of my reach for quite awhile, so by virtue of poverty I have the luxury of putting any temptation out of mind, and just watching the fireworks. The G5 on the other hand may be more tempting in the near future once hacked, but that would mean selling my GH2... as much as I cringe at that notion, logic kicks in and says if I sell it for $600 now, I can likely by another in a year for $400 or maybe less. hmmmmmm.

  • jamesgh2jamesgh2

    Improved DR and Low light performance look great on the GH3. The low light grain in the shadows is fine and filmic. An extreme improvement and could be a killer camera.

    However the Moire and Aliasing are back along with probably less detail in the image. Every single video posted so far has them in spades.

    I can't put the GH3 in my arsenal for that reason. I moved from Canon to the GH2 to avoid aliasing, moire and lack of detail and all these three seem to be back.

    I can add more lights and work on the GH2 weaknesses but I can't get rid of aliasing/moire artifacts in post effectively without heavily degrading the image.

    Seems the GH2 secret ingredient was all in the Sensor, by using a Sony or more Sony like design the killer aspect of the GH2 was thrown out the window.

    Somehow I dont think firmware is going to fix this. What shame!

  • goannagoanna

    I'm disappointed by the extra size. Just when I've completed my (small is beautiful) rig for GH2.

  • zigizigizigizigi

    +1 GH3 needs a diet. That pro=big approach doesn't accept new players on the market. There are already Canons and Nikons out there. Panasonic had a great peculiar niche with compact body yet packed with features. Now they're going nowhere.

    Personally If they release a "GH3 lite" version, not weatherproof, no alloy, just good old plastic GH2 body but with the new sensor for $1K, I'll grab one as soon as they are out. Don't even need all-I, 50p that badly. But would gladly pay $100-200 extra for audio output and WiFi.

  • woodybrandowoodybrando

    they can also strip out the evf and add a few hundred thousand more pixels to the live view screen. and am i crazy, or should someone just stick 1920x1080 pixels on a 4/3rd's or aps-c or FF sensor to see what that does for low light sensitivity.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    and am i crazy, or should someone just stick 1920x1080 pixels on a 4/3rd's or aps-c or FF sensor to see what that does for low light sensitivity

    Nothing if binning is used right.

  • soundgh2soundgh2

    Wether it's worth noticing, 100% of the stuff I've been mixing since the summer has been C300, full stop .. NAT GEO Discovery arty farty BBC, CH4 - all no variation C300 - went to take a call upstairs and saw ITV across the road (at ITN Grays Inn Road) filming cars (and me lol) on a C100 so the ENG crews are looking at what they know not what's best ... we can procrastinate and of course be right about camera choice (ahem lol) but in the end comes down to that production meeting and the compromise between your $$ and what post can do in the time designated - no cash and time to transcode - no Epic sorry -Real life day to day TV lads - harsh n shit lol

  • goannagoanna

    @lenuisible

    Which lumix french forum ?

  • AstroAstro

    @mee I have to respectfully disagree with this comment. "since the GH2 looks video like when it's stock/unhacked"

    My view is the GH2 looks good straight out of the box, many argue you cannot tell the difference when its hacked or not hacked, many have tested this. But the hack allows better grading, better postwork..it holds up better...it definitely does not change the entire appearance from video to film, that's simply wrong and if you search thru these forums you will see a lot of posts confirming what I have just said.

    Bottom line is though, we can debate this stuff endlessly, at the end of the day those that like the GH3 will buy it, those that dont...wont. Those that are uncertain (myself) will wait and see.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    However the Moire and Aliasing are back along with probably less detail in the image. Every single video posted so far has them in spades.

    Wow that sucks. I haven't been following the GH3, this is the consensus though? moire and aliasing are back? Panny got Canonized?

  • AstroAstro

    @peternap I agree with your stance on this...basically wait and see. I was hot to get it

    Now after seeing the footage....I am not..I am glad I feel this way actually, I find buying things in the heat of passion is usually a mistake LOL!! Cheers

  • kavadnikavadni

    If I needed slowmotion for a couple of days I might buy one, rather than hire.

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