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24p versus 30p
  • 24p is considered the cinema progressive frame rate

    30p is considered the television progressive frame rate, when you want progressive instead of interlaced

    when dslr and mirrorless revolution started people was crazy to get 24p with shallow dof to mimic cinema aesthetics

    today i do not see any reason to shot 24p anymore

    1. the cinema theaters projectors are digital and can project 30p frame rate
    2. the computers monitors are set to 30 or 60 hertz and sync better with 30p without skip frames or duplicate frames
    3. the 30p is much more smooth for camera movements like pan and tilt, but it also keep some small sttuter to mimic cinema, best of both worlds
    4. the open television broadcast is 60i and combine better with 30p, because 30p inside 60i keep the progressive look
    5. all camcorders, mirrorless and dslr cameras have 30p

    Some more considerations: I am not crazy for shallow dof anymore, if the image is sharp it is good. I am not crazy for 4k anymore, a good 1080p camera can deliver excelent results, people do not watch content so close to the screen.

  • 23 Replies sorted by
  • Maybe you forgot that MOST of the world is base 25FPS 50i for TV not 30FPS 60i ?

    It's only the US and Japan that are 30p/60i based.

    30FPS is harder to shoot in 50Hz power environments because of lighting flicker.

    In the end, who cares really what frame rates people shoot at ?


  • @johnbrawley

    Japan is only partly 30p :-) other part is 25p :-)

    For example, largest expos in Japan are in 50Hz part :-)

  • @johnbrawley Agree. It's very true that mostly in USA we sort of think of "cinema" as 24p which is very Hollywood-centric. Academy awards go mainly to this market, as well. Also, the fact that 24p and 25p are sort of interchangeable, like speeding up or slowing down the whole thing for different markets, is really not a good thing. As a musician the pitch change is super annoying.
    And the advent of budget LEDs, even in performance venues, and cheap dimmers is a flicker nightmare.

  • And the advent of budget LEDs, even in performance venues, and cheap dimmers is a flicker nightmare.

    Issue is not dimmers, issue is capitalism, as tiny savings (necessary to maximize local profits) produce lot of problems (around 100-1000x global losses compared to local profits).

    For example, it is around $3-5 more to properly add 20-50Khz led drivers to any monitor or up to 55" TV instead of 100-400hz usual mess. Yet tens of millions of people shit their eyes each day due to capitalist savings.

  • Japan is only partly 30p :-) other part is 25p :-) For example, largest expos in Japan are in 50Hz part :-)

    Even though Japan's power grid is split between 50Hz and 60Hz sections, my understanding was that the television system which was based on the NTSC standard (NTSC-J version used in Japan) is 29.97 fps throughout the country. NHK has several national television stations in Japan and I believe these all broadcast in 29.97/59.94 frame rates.

  • I agree 100% with Apefos. I shoot only in 30p, I like the look and Is good for news and for fictions. And the 99% of smartphones and pads in all the world have the screen refresh fix to 30p.

  • Advantages of 25p over 24p

    1 if you shot 25p you do not need to speed up the footage to broadcast in television

    2 you avoid light flick in 50hz countries

    3 you avoid duplicate frames when playback in computer screens which are 25hz or 50hh refresh rate

    4 cinema theaters are digital and can playback 25p

    5 you avoid pitch change in sound because do not need to speed up the footage

  • 25p versus 30p

    both are good, the decision is related to the country you live.

  • I am fine with 23.976. I actually like 3:2 pull down because it is how I always watched movies on the CRT.

  • I prefer black and white video only, because that is what I watched on TV when a little kid...

  • Advantages of Black and White Video over Color Video

    1 - you do not need to worry about scenery and costumes so much because everything will be in shades of grey

    2 - you do not loose time with color grading in post production

    3 - you do not need to worry about dynamic range so much because clipped whites looks good in black and white

    4 - hdr, s-log and 10 bit can be totally discarded because the cameras have excelent B&W profiles in 8 bit

    5 - you get a charming old style look, very artistic

    6 - you select the audience because only sophisticated people like black and white these days

    7 - you can win awards in film festivals

    8 - forget 4k, soft 720p looks good in B&W

    9 - lighting is easy to do because light and shadow looks good in B&W

    10 - your old super 8 or vhs camera can be useful

  • I live in a 25p contry, and went for that (or 50p) until now. But my new iphone only films 30 or 24p, and few cameras shoot 4160by2160 (and not 3840) only if set in 24p mode. That's why I was thinking to switch to 24p, not to be more cine-like but for these practical reasons. Will my clients have issues when playing back their videos in modern smart tvs?

  • @davjd You have clients that will accept videos from your cell phone, that demand 4KDCI rather than UHD, and that watch your videos on 25P TV's? This makes no sense. They would prefer 4KDCI 24P to a UHD 25P video really?

  • Clients will be happy anyway and maybe will not recognize if I use iPhone (in case of emergency) rather than my gh5. The choice between 25 or 24 only regards my workflow. The only doubt is how 24p plays back on smart TVs I will make experiments.

  • @davjd remember that you can speed up the 24p to 25p. it is only 4% speed difference and it is fine to do because television always do this when broadcasting films.

  • You can just take 4% speed difference. In the unlikely and annoying event that you have to mix and match 24 and 25, you can dump an extra frame into 24p and it won't look half bad. OTOH, if you subtract a frame to go from 25 to 24 it will look more than half bad. Then there's Twixtor.

  • For Personal-View and most of the other videos I do I choose 30p. Being in the USA it looks better on TV and monitors. Most of the internet videos seem to be 30p. Some cameras, mainly cellphones are 30p only. Even when producing ads for the local Cinema I create 30p masters as they accept them. Only for film festivals have I had to convert to 24p.

    Overseas in China and Europe I still shoot 30p and set the shutter to a 50th or 100th of a second. With the GH5 I set the shutter angle to 216d instead of 180d to avoid flicker from 50htz lights.

  • 30p at 1/50 (or very near shutter speed) looks good.

  • the complete failure of the hobbit at 48fps proved nobody likes that visual asthetic, so there's really no debate except for technical reasons. I can personally tell the difference between 24 and 25. 25 looks horrible. and then why not watch Gemini man as it was intended at 120fps?

  • @hardimpact why 25p looks horrible?

  • 25 looks like 24. It has two problem: It looks better for fiction only (like 24) It looks smooth only in TV set in ex PAL country. It is not smooth in phones, pads, computer monitor.

  • TV looks smooth due to the interpolation effect they use to make all footage 60p. 25 and up looks like soap operas and I hate soap operas.

  • 25p and 30p don’t looks like soap operas. This is for sure.