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Going hard-wired with a lavalier mic?
  • So I've been looking for a good solution that'll allow me to use lavalier mics as wired units. I had previously been running my Oscar SoundTech TL-40 (it's a great mic, by the way) into a Tascam DR-05, which I planted on or near the subject. However, that setup doesn't let me monitor the audio, which is scary and very bad form. Worse, it has on occasion come unplugged. Nothing like telling a personal friend of the Clintons and a colleague of Joseph Campbell that she needs to repeat everything she said over the past 30 minutes. Yes, that happened.

    Although one can find locking TRS extension cables, they apparently act like radio antennae, and the longer the distance the worse the distortion. Balanced XLR seems like the obvious choice, but that presents another issue: how to adapt a mic that requires 10v mic power, to an XLR cable that either has no power or has 12V / 48V phantom power.

    After a little research, I bought a Provider Series PPA XLR to Sennheiser (threaded TRS) power adapter, to match my TL-40. The Provider Series PPA is small tube just larger than an XLR plug, that uses 48V phantom power from XLR on one end, to power any kind of lavalier mic on other end, and balances the signal at mic level for transmission through the XLR cable. By the way, I got a PPA with AUT plug on eBay for $1 with shipping (usually $90), and ordered a SENN replacement plug from Performance Audio for $29 -- but instead they sent me another PPA WITH a SENN plug: another $90 value!. Got lucky on both counts!

    Anyway, I don't currently have an XLR recorder (I'm expecting a DR-60D in the mail on Friday), but I have been testing this new setup with my iRig PRE on my iPhone and on my DR-05. It works, but I'm a little surprised by how high the noise floor is, and how flat the sound is. I compare the recordings on the DR-05 with and without the iRig PRE / PPA adapters, and I get a MUCH cleaner and fuller recording plugging the lav mic directly into the recorder and turning mic power on. I was lead to believe that the iRig PRE is a decent pre-amp, with a low noise floor. Does that mean the Provider Series adapters are causing the degraded quality? Or maybe my iRig PRE is a lemon? Because of the error with Performance Audio I have two PPAs, and I get the same results using both of them. So I kind of doubt it's a bad copy, more likely the design is bad.

    I will do more comparisons once the DR-60D arrives, and hopefully figure out which unit is the culprit. I'll post my findings here, but in the mean time, I wanted to know what everyone else is doing when they want to go wired with their lavalier mics.

  • 16 Replies sorted by
  • @Sangye I may have missed some of the technical stuff here, but are you primarily concerned with going hard wired with lavs and making sure they don't come unplugged, or do you want to also be able to monitor the audio? I think I've heard of solutions where people have a recorder with a wired lav attached, but also have a wireless transmitter on the recorder. So you listen with headphones to the wireless transmission, but the recorded audio is actually from the wired lav going into the recorder. That way you get the best possible audio and avoid any wireless interference, but you're basically able to monitor the audio to make sure you're getting what you need.

    This is something I remembered hearing about awhile ago, so my memory on the technical stuff here could be off. Maybe try googling it. Good luck.

    (BTW, I shot a feature using hard wired lavs, and used Tram TR-50s going into Roland R-05 recorders and I didn't have any problems with the mic getting disconnected. If interested, get the Tram TR-50 with the 1/8" Sennheiser plug. It plugs right into the Roland 1/8" mic input and works perfectly)

  • I use a simple setup consisting of an inexpensive but good-sounding lav mic with a 3.5mm plug that attaches to the mic in (with plug-in power) of an Olympus LS-10s voice recorder (which goes into the person's pocket). Manual level with limiter has always given me high quality, distortion-free voice recording. Tape the lav's wire to the recorder and set the record lock as precautions. Olympus recorders can operate for days on a fresh pair of AA batts, unlike many fancier recorders, so power failure is the least of my concerns. Yeah, you can't monitor sound this way (unless you want to run a line from your headphones to the recorder), but I've come to trust the recorder once I hit record - this setup just works and it does a great job reliably, for me at least.

  • Since in The Uk we have switched over to Channel 36 I have had no end of Issues with the Sennheiser Radio Mics so I ended up buying Canford Adaptors for the ME-2 mic's off the Sennheiser Evolution G3 series for sit down interviews.

    Canford Also do Lots of adaptors for different mic fittings.

    http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/20-769_CANFORD-ELECTRET-MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-3.5mm-jack

  • I've tested a Sennheiser lav mic plugged into a Sony ICD-UX533 voice recorder, and it gives you PCM 44.1khz. It's a mono file, but that can be easily converted to stereo in post. The Sony recorder has 4GB internal storage which is plenty, and is small enough that you can put it in the talent/interviewee/groom's pocket and have it recording for hours on a single AAA battery.

  • I would like to second htinla's method, that's exactly what I use and it is very good setup. You cannot monitor during record but as long as you are plugged in correctly, set the limiter to control unexpected peaks, do a level and sound check before filming and don't forget to hit record, the sound is very good indeed; though the actual mic will be your bottleneck in terms of fidelity. I've only heard good things about the OST lavalier so it should be a very good option.

    A tip for for mixing lavalier in post: I use Zynaptiq Unfilter to unlock lost frequencies due to the inherent FRC of lavalier mics and it really opens up the sound. Trick is to control how much you mix back in with the original signal and then to add corresponding room verb. I do this to match lav tracks to boom with very decent results.

    @fosterchen Why would you want to convert a mono lav track into stereo? All dialogue tracks are mono unless you're going for some freaky LSD dream sequence vibe...

  • @htinla, what's the cheap good-sounding lav you use?

  • Here is a Vers Video On lavs

    look in the description and he tells you where to buy them from

  • @Sangye: I may be missing something, but why don't you just get a mic with an xlr connector on it? The Rode lav has an xlr micon connector, or there's this, if Rode solution is too expensive: http://www.micronic.co.uk/store/item/263/pro-cannon-xlr-phantom-power-lavalier-lapel-microphone

    Or are you so wedded to your current lav that you will simply accept no alternative?? If so, why?

  • @Hooke The lav came with an old Audio Technica wireless setup I have but don't use much anymore.

  • @Roly I do really like my Oscar Sound Tech lavalier, and want to keep it. They offer it hard-wired to an XLR power adapter, but unfortunately I wasn't aware of this when I ordered it and bought one with a Sennheiser plug, instead. Røde is great, having owned an NTG-1, NTG-2, and several VideoMics I do like their sound, but there are a lot of other older lavs out there that don't have XLR connections. Most of them were designed for use with wireless transmitter packs, but I can't afford a wireless transmitter, and honestly for what I need it for (controlled interviews in a sit-down setting), wireless isn't necessary. And the rule of thumb is that a balanced XLR cable is always going to be higher quality than wireless, so theoretically I should be getting better sound this way.

    I used to run my OST lavalier directly into my Tascam DR-05, and plant it on the subject. This gave me good quality sound, but as I said, there have been instances when it came unplugged, and not being able to monitor it, I didn't immediately notice. That's very bad, obviously. I like the idea of hooking up a cheap wireless transmitter to a small recorder's headphone jack, for monitoring. I hadn't thought of that before -- that way you get great quality recordings because you've plugged the mic directly into the recorder, but you still get monitoring wirelessly. But if you hear distortion or interference, I guess you couldn't be sure without checking the recorder whether it's because of the wireless monitoring setup, or between the mic and the actual recorder. Still, that is a creative solution.

    My DR-60D arrived today, and I'm not having the issues as bad anymore. I think the main problem was the iRig PRE, which either is a bad copy, or doesn't supply the right phantom power voltage that my Provider Series calls for. Maybe it's just shy of 48v, maybe it's over 48v. But that issue is resolved with the DR-60D.

    The Provider Series adapters are a little finnicky. Sometimes they won't work at all. Often I can fix it by unscrewing the plug tip and screwing it back in 3/4 of the way, but not always. Both of them have this issue, so I can't recommend them. Sennheiser makes an adapter too, but it's $150. There are some other smaller brands that make XLR to lav adapters, but I don't have experience with them.

  • @Sangye can you tell me what mic level Oscar needs to be set on Dr-05? Btw my Irig works good with Ntg3 but never tried it with lapel.

  • @Sangye, I have the Beyer equivalent (CVU 16) of that Sennheiser adapter ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387918-REG/Sennheiser_MZA900P_MZA_900_P.html ), and it works perfectly.

    I recently was looking at these: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6062836127.html and am wondering if anyone has experience with them?

    "The adaptor is also a quick solution if a microphone is to be used for both wired and wireless applications. It can also be used as a cable tester for XLR microphone cables. Perfect for connecting tie clip lavalier / headset bodypack transmitter microphones to a mixer / amplifier / PA system. Features & Specifications:
    Robust metal chassis
    Admiss. ambient temp: 0-40c
    Phantom power: 10 volts - 52 volts
    Input: TA3F Mini XLR
    Output XLR-3Male"

    Thanks!

  • @konjow - I typically go with input level of 70-80 when wiring the OST TL40 directly into my DR-05.

  • Lav usage tips

  • Am using OST 801 at the moment, pretty tempted to add in the SoundTech TL-40 into the mix as another option, anyone else also running both?

    Also, I have a lav mounting tip myself here, for fight scenes: