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Uncompressed recorder for cheap?
  • 54 Replies sorted by
  • brianlucebrianluce
    Please help with persepctive...
    From perusing the comments about tests of the GH2 hack, I get the sense that since the GH2 is so good unhacked, that the upside potential with the hackis fairly limited and that only incremental improvement of images will be achieved. But the notion of an un or less compressed 422 signal from HDMI, that's the holy grail no?
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @brainluce it is my understanding that the 'encoder' hack is progressing every day- and getting better. Remember that although 'stable' settings are not expected yet- the team have been able to get 65mbs stable- an amazing achievement.
    To answer your question- in-camera recording is needed - even with the HDMI. This allows a backup workflow- where you can record in-camera and to external recorder.

    Also- there may be situations in the future when you don't have access to the HDMI recorder or something breaks the day of filming... etc... having a backup plan is the best plan. (Also remember- that currently the GH2VK can record in-camera at HIGHER QUALITY than the AF100!!!!)

    You mention that the 'potential of the hack is fairly limited'? I do hope you have been reading the forum- the compression that exists un-hacked is horrid... it may be a nice still image- but the minute you start moving the camera the video turns to mush.

    The current 42mbs & 65mbs are fantastic - with basically NO artifacts. However AVCHD will always be a 4:2:0 codec- and in this respect HDMI could help this- giving us 4:2:2.

    It is not right to think of the hack being limited - and the camera being 'so good unhacked'- let me explain: There is very little wrong with the 'hardware' of the camera(for the price point- and actually above the price point) - it is a super platform- so much so that experienced firmware engineers (VK) feel that Panasonic should consider re-building the Pro cameras under the Lumix team.

    What is lacking is the firmware- Low bitrates- missing settings- intentional issues (PAL; 30min Euro Model; Possibly HDMI). Also- there is NO reason for Panasonic to spend time (time+engineers+firmware coders = time + money + money= money x 3= lots of money), and please remember that Firmware coding is one of the hardest areas of coding- as you are working within hardware & software domains. So Panasonic would rather sell you a more expensive camera - than fix the GH2. (Actually Panasonic would rather sell you a GH3 that you think is better- until you realize that its basically the same except for a firmware update!)

    Also understand that VK has NO developer tools- nor SDK fro Panasonic- this is a totally grass roots effort- and in a very short time period there has been massive progress. Just be patient - in your spare time - test out the encoder variables- the faster that is done the quicker everything can move. (that and buy VK a coffee- or at least a beer- or a 6 pack or something!) :D
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    Back to what I was posting now:
    HDMI Strike Team:
    What about the bullet proof vests? We need the vests!
    Strike-team-6b.jpg
    432 x 310 - 206K
  • brianlucebrianluce
    @alcomposer
    Thanks for the great summary. I used to own an EX3 and the external capture device truly transformed that camera. I'm just impatient perhaps.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @brianluce
    Don't worry- we are all impatient- probably most VK! Now... How about those vests @VK! We needs them for protection from Panny when we go deep into the HDMI hood!
  • brianlucebrianluce
    @alcomposer
    <<<<To answer your question- in-camera recording is needed - even with the HDMI. This allows a backup workflow- where you can record in-camera and to external recorder.<br />>>>>

    I have a new found appreciation for this. Was playing around with external monitor tonight on my friend's jib. That mini HDMI port is NOT robust. Even small movements in the cable can cause the HDMI cable to slightly dislodge and break the signal and lose the picture.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @brianluce

    There is a GH2 cage that has a HDMI locking bolt- http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DSLR-camera-CAGE-Ultimate-without-extend-plate-/280716018143?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415bfa81df

    Could be useful... Other than that- I didn't find any issues like this, maybe make sure that the HDMI recorder is bolted to your rails etc...
  • kavadnikavadni
    I have ordered one of these .. the Hyperdeck Shuttle .. 5-7 days. I will let you know what I discover.
  • sphippssphipps
    @brianluce you aint lyin about the hdmi port. i have a smallhd dp4 and just a lil bump to the hdmi cord and it interupts the picture. do that while recording out of that thing and you're screwed. anyone else have a solution for this?
  • sphippssphipps
    also does anyone know if the canon xa10 hdmi output can put out 10 bit 422?
  • AriaAria
    @sphipps, I believe the XA10 is AVCHD 8bit 4:2:0. XF100 is 8bit 4:2:2 I think. 10bit is most likely only in bigger more expensive cameras. From what I've read the XF100's 8bit 4:2:2 is supposed to be really good.
  • stoneystoney
    @sphipps a separate HDMI splitter?
  • brianlucebrianluce
    @sphippbs:
    Even a cable with a nice tight 90 degree downward bend would help. I'd gaff tape it snug. I don't think such a thing exists though. It cools my jets with regards to hdmi recording. And I think using that port over the long term would just keep degrading the connection. Sigh. Consumer gear...
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @brianluce

    If you need extreme reliability- why not use some Electrically Conductive Resin? (Simply smear it around the HDMI connector- and plug it in for the last time?) That baby ain't ever going to come out!

    But I have recorded with HDMI out - and I didn't find the same issues with the HDMI port... Maybe try a very small run HDMI cable? (300mm?) Also try different brand of MINI HDMI connector...
  • _gl_gl
    @brianluce, there are 90deg cables on Ebay - I've got them, they're v. good:
    http://shop.ebay.co.uk/just_for_survive/m.html?_nkw=mini+hdmi+90*
  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut
    Anyone using it with GH2 and new firmware for 1080PsF25? Is it any good?
  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut
    Never mind. This thing does uncompressed, which is far too high bitrate. Rather see ProRes.
  • apixapix
    So does the HyperDeck Shuttle record a uncompressed quicktime, 10bit 4:2:2 file and does anyone know how it compares to the latest driftwood awesome patches =)
  • andresandres

    Just Realesed HyperDeck Shuttle 2 with Avid DNxHD support.

    http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/news/story/blackmagic_design_releases_hyperdeck_shuttle_2_with_avid_dnxhd_recording_an/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    In fact, it is just software update free for owners on original bundle :-)

    But good news is that it now records in Avid DNxHD compressed format making thing much more useful.

  • AthirilAthiril

    Choice between compressed and uncompressed is what was holding me back, as I do want uncompressed for a couple things, but many times I do want to record compressed.. now if you could shoot compressed with a regular sata hard drive (2.5") that'd be nice. In fact I wonder if plugging in one would actually work, it's still over the SATA bus and, so reality it should given the same file system.. if it is able to power it.

    In any case, an inexpensive (few grand) 4:4:4 HDMI recorder is coming, by cinemartin. Sony have got their 4:4:4 HDMI output firmware upgrade.. recorder is both compressed and uncompressed, so it's a good bit of future proofing there.

    Also the cinemartin is "OPEN CODEC Arquitecture Allows to use third party codecs. Software will allow developers to make plugins, widgets and more.."

    Which is great.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    I dont own the camera (yet), can someone confirm that GH2/PAL with latest stock firmware outputs 422 chroma? And if not, will the upcoming patch address this at all?

    I've had some experience with color correcting 422 sources vs 420 and it holds up so much better! Having DNxHD 185X with no transcoding at such a low entry price would be beyond awesome.

  • itimjimitimjim

    It's 4:2:0 8-bit, and it is extremely unlikely we will ever get 4:2:2 out of it.

    Best I've seen is intelligent up scaling from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 using 5DtoRGB which outputs ProRes 422 (it can do 4444 too). It adds a step to the workflow, but I personally think it is worth it.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    I know of 5D2RGB. There are quite severe gaps in the histogram (i.e. missing color information) on a 422 timeline, even with chroma interpolation. The 8bit signal doesn't phase me so much (with a 10bit codec).

    Oh well. I suppose having DNxHD at the ready on set is worth the price of admission, even for 8bit 420.

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    Looks nice! Might get it to use with my AF100. At that price I bet it doesn't remove pulldown tho.

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