Official GF2 hack development topic

zcream

I was reading the test wrong. Apologies!! This seems a reasonable explanation. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1586298

If I understand correctly, resolution doesn't affect DR as directly as it does detail levels. There is the conversion process and even the sensor pixel-site quality.

This is a great, detailed explanation of image sensor performance characteristics: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/digital.sensor.performance.summary/index.html

Dynamic range = Full Well Capacity (electrons) / Read Noise (electrons)

Full well capacity is correlated with pixel area. So, for a fixed sensor size and construction, as resolution increases the DR decreases.

In this case it seems the pixel pitch on the GH2 is 3.6um while the GH1 has a 4.3um pitch. The read electronics may be slightly improved (less noise), but I'd guess it would not compensate for the drop in pixel size — so overall the DR will probably be somewhat worse than the GH1.

But strangely, DXOMark rates the GF2 as lower dynamic range than GH1.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GF2-vs-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GH1 More dynamic range 11.6 EV vs 10.3 EV

1.3 f-stops more dynamic range

Strange!!

KeithLommel

@lolodigital: Hate to disappoint you, but GF2 does NOT have the GH1 sensor. It has the G1/G2/GF1 sensor, which is generally considered to be inferior to both GH1 and GH2 sensors, as well as G3/GX1 sensor.

Despite all this, I still like the camera a lot and think it was very underrated by GF1 owners who wanted a more significant upgrade. Definitely looking forward to what VK and Driftwood can make it capable of. Could be a very handy b-cam for GH2.

raz

Vitaliy any rough timeline for when realising this patch ? Even just an estimate date would make us happy :) Thanks!

koolphoto

Any release date?

kirankdwd

koolphoto@ Any release date? keep watching on Vitaliy_Kiselev replies on http://www.personal-view.com/talks/profile/comments/1/Vitaliy_Kiselev

kavadni

I hacked my camera with the ini from @stonebat http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2321/gf2-stable-patch#Item_7.

Anecdotal.

I also selected the 'time limit' 'pal<>ntsc' and 'max iso' options. My main aim is to get Pal from the cheap NTSC camera I bought.

After application of patch .. .. no setting in camera menus to set pal<>ntsc. There is one in Television output .. I changed this to PAL.

I tried to record .. incompatible ntsc data on card .. good sign .. formatted card. Recorded a clip .. loaded to my workstation it's PAL 25fps .. Yay

I change the setting back to NTSC .. again cannot record on card .. this time because image count exceeded.

I haven't done it, but am guessing if I reformat card I will be ok

.. And windows reports bitrate at 24Mbs with @stonebats ini .. previsously the GF2s never recorded above 17Mbs

Cheers

Kevin

kavadni

@vitally

If I can help I will, I currently have 2 PAL GF2's and a (now hacked NTSC GF2 .. it's PAL Yay)

Cheers

Kevin

luca_vascon

Hi!! Do I understand correctly, the patch is OUT?!?!? Something I do not understand, does it allow MANUAL settings on video recording?! Thanx.

KeithLommel

@luca_vascon: Not yet. VK has said he plans to work on implementing manual settings for GF2 in the future, though.

tonalt

I'm confused. It's clear that 1080 24p is not possible with GH2. But is 25p or 30p possible? And if it is, what I need to select from rec mode?

kitano

@tonalt the default setting for the pal mode is 25p and 30p for the NTSC. You can switch between the two using the hack. Nothing has changed with the hack in regards to the framerate (so NO 24p at the moment). The higher bitrate is the main outcome at the moment.

Mind you, once you switch between Pal and NTSC you have to format your card.

tonalt

I assume I have to choose 1080i from the rec mode menu. But is it really 25p as it is with GH2 with the newest firmware?

KeithLommel

@tonalt: GF2 has always been 25p (PAL)/30p (NTSC), before and after the hack. As with the GH2 HBR modes, your 25p/30p is recorded in a 50i/60i wrapper, but depending on your NLE you should be able to import them into a 25p/30p timeline and have it recognized, or rewrap them with some other tool to correctly flag the content as progressive. The hack has not changed any of this.

So yes, choose 1080i from the rec mode menu, and you should be good to go with 25p/30p (depending on your region).

stonebat

GF2 has always been 30p and 25p wrapped in 60i and 50i just like GH2's HBR. Yea it's not a showstopper.

JayB38

This has been quite interesting...

I see GF2 selling like hotcakes from eBay on to Amazon at ridiculous prices both new an refurbished.

I can't wait!

chindoo

I want to say thank you for the GF2 firmware hack. i only wanted to change the language from Japanese to English on my GF2 and had no idea about all the other tweeks that can me made. Now I have to figure them out and thats great because I like figuring things out.

lgstoian

Can anyone post some videos taken with the gf2 after the hack ?

driftwood

*** NEW *** GF2 GOP6 with B frames. Here's a template setting for all round GOP6 for GF2 users. It will work above stock settings but needs adjusting and fine tuning - I have to assume as Im still awaiting a GF2 to be delivered from ebay.

Nick

ednmolina

I'm new to this hacking. How do I use that template file? ^^

holmes6

@ednmolina save the file as a name you'll remember (I used driftwood1.zip) somewhere you remember (I just put it in the same folder with ptool)
Open ptool (http://www.gh1-hack.info/wiki/PToolSoftware)
load firmware
click on one of the red round buttons at the bottom of the ptool interface
find your downloaded zip in the import settings window and click open
the settings will be loaded in ptool

shurup

Please explain, how it is possible to change options in camera (different bit rate, fps, unlimited iso in video), after update to hacked firmware? What buttons to press for a choice of different modes?

stockhausen

@driftwood ..... nope the 720 b frame files still won't playback in camera ( with yr new GF2 gop6 bframe suggestion) , they play and look fine once saved onto the computer though!!??? hmmmm, I'm going to keep all yr settings and just turn the b frames off on 720 for the mo' and concentrate on the 1080 fhs for now.. hope yr GF2 lands soon.

stockhausen

@driftwood & anybody else thats GF2ing, switching off the b frames makes 720p playable in camera again.. I left all the other buffers & gop as per Driftwoods GF2 gop6 settings. 1080 looks good so no reason not to stick with that for now , 2fps timelapse with Driftwoods mjpeg bitrate boosts works fine too..

driftwood

@stockhausen Thats because it wasnt designed to be able to play them back I believe (Panny switched off B settings for 720p)... of course switch to P frames if you like.

Try out the new Quantum settings on GF2 could you? May have to stabilise them but these are top settings... http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2364/driftwood-quantum-x-v2-rocket#Item_25

RnR01

Oh man, I can't wait to hack my new GF2. Awesome work everybody! Not sure, if this is the right place, but anybody looking for a cheap GF2, for some reason they are dirt (DIRT) cheap in the Netherlands. I don't know what the price will be after import tax, but check out:

http://www.fotohanskeuzekamp.nl/product_detail/4710/906/panasonic-gf2--zwart-body.html

EURO 169,- for a GF2 body!

kavadni

An observation on the GF2 in manual mode.

When shooting movies it's auto iso and apperture, you can lock shutter with 'flicker fixer'. However when I use a minolta manual lens with f2.8 - f22 .. stopping down effects the image .. under daylight conditions .. stopping down from f2.8 progressively darkened the image until f16, at which point the camera compensates and lifts the exposure.

An anecdotal observation .. it affords some control

stockhausen

@kavadni .Holy GF2 Easter Eggs!! you are right, just tried it with an old industar 69 (2.8 - 16 co-incidentally) you can really control the exposure by pressing record and changing f stop to the low lighting effect required.. I wonder if this is a legacy effect of Vitaliy's attempts at full manual control for GF2 .. I don't have a manual lens that goes past f16 so I can't see or imagine why the auto iso would click back on after that f stop.. very useful, Vitaliy, intended or not You are the Easter Bunny incarnate.. please don't write this out of any updates to Ptool ( unless it's for a more controllable manual mode of course..)

docz

Any chance for 4:2:2 or better colorspace in AVCHD mode?

gameb

Does the hacked gf2 has both 1080p 25fps and 30fps or is it a basic difference depending if you buy a camera in Europe or US?

holmes6

@gameb ptool can enable pal<>ntsc menu once install a firmware with that patch that you can switch format in the settings menu on the camera After the switch and card format, file format is 1080p 25

gameb

@holmes6, thanks holmes, thats like the PTool with the GH2. But my question was about the file format, is 1080p 25fps the european version, or is that switchable from 1080p 30fps to?

kavadni

@Vitaliy

What I hope for in the next ptools for my GF2 is;

Manual Control

HDMI Live out

It seems that all popular patches work quite respectably

Thank you

Kevin

gameb

I am buying a b-cam, what do you think its better, go for the gf2 or wait for gf3 and hack? Price wise its not a big difference, but which is the better camera?

LongJohnSilver

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Not to stress you but do you think will be possible having manual controls on GF2 like the beloved GF1?

Thanks a lot

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@LongJohnSilver

Yes. Just need some time.

kavadni

@vitaliy, with no pressure intended .. can you estimate a next pTools release which might allow manual control of ISO on the GF2.

I have a music video shoot for the 28th March, and am contemplating using only GHx cameras. I can shoot with Sony EX1/3s .. so honestly no pressure from me.

If there may be another release before the 28th, I can contemplate the idea, and plan for both options.

Cheers

Kevin

luca_vascon

@Driftwood I tried to use your Orion right in gf2... my kingston class10 is not fast enough to handle it. :-P

driftwood

@luca_vascon Try 'Cluster' v1 and let me know if it works fine for you.

http://personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/11/ac84e412db251c5dc2e981b807bd15.zip

luca_vascon

@Driftwood, Just ordered a 90mbs 8gb card ;-) Yes, that is the one I'm using now, the "only long GOP you will ever make" :-D :-D I'm starting to understand the theory behind all this. Just hanging here around. I start to understand why all professional videomakers I know refuses to go out of their tracks and their "given good settings and formats" Very few want to know what is behind the hull, why and when a compression algorythm is better than another. I feel like in the beginning of 360 panoramic picture tecnology.... back in 1998...... :-D :-D THANK YOU ALL from the heart. let's squeeze from our Pannyes every single bit they can give us! Luca.

Rambo

VK, is there a reason the 720p59.94fps->29.97fps" patch which Ipowell used in his Fast Action 3-Frame GOP Patch for GH1 was not ported over to the latest ptools? I wanted to use this setting on my GF2 to get rid of the frame doubling in 720p mode. Thanks.

I'm assumiming everyone knows the GF2 720 is not true 50/60fps.

R

Rambo

I guess till we have manual controls, nobody is going to take the GF2 seriously :-(

kavadni

@Rambo .. yup .. manual is all it needs and I can use them on Jobs

Rambo

It's already proving valuable as a 2fps Timelapse Cam in Mjpeg mode.

seanpj

@rambo Not really, until you can control the shutter. I can do 2fps with 1/2s shutter on gh2, but what can you do if only fixed shutter on gf2 is 1/50, 1/60 (flicker reducing mode). So, if only we get the shutter under control, we'll be cool.

Rambo

@seanpj It's fine for what I need TL for. Plus if I need more blur/ blending, BCC (Boris Continium Complete ) running in Sony Vegas Pro does a great job of inducing a variety of motion blurs and interpolation. Having shutter control would be preferable.

vic_china

hey! 10x for your efforts vitaly

is there anything new on GF2 manual video mode?

Vitaliy_Kiselev

is there anything new on GF2 manual video mode?

Do not worry, I'll tell if some news will be available.
I need to finish all GF3 related first.

vic_china

10x! but there is hope right?

drtygnus

bought the gf3...it's a very good camera! hope to have the hack soon...patiently waiting!

andyvia68

See my video tutorial for gh2 ptool firmware 1.1 installing. sorry it is in Italian, but we understand anyway!!!

1.3 f-stops more dynamic range

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