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BlackMagic: All shortcomings in one place, discussion
  • So, that we have already discussed in announcment topic:

    1. No XLRs (despite audio inputs are balanced)
    2. No phantom power on audio input. Not good for condenser mikes.
    3. 30fps maximum only, many like 60fps now, and 120fps becomes new standard for pro cameras already
    4. Uncompressed only option for RAW requiring big investments
    5. SSD connectors are completely unsuitable for frequent insertion
    6. Long and complicated RAW workflow
    7. Required investments in backup solutions due to big file sizes
    8. Absent HDMI connection, so you need to buy new and much more costly monitor or EVF.

    Check more camera issues at:

    http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/blackmagic-cinema-camera/blackmagic-cinema-camera-faq

  • 44 Replies sorted by
    1. SSD is in MAC format which requires additional software to be bought / installed for every PC you want to read the drive with.
    2. Internal battery not user replaceable.
    3. Only Canon EF mount offered. A shorter flange depth mount would be more ideal allowing more lens options.
  • It looks like it should be called the iRaw.

  • 1.Crop factor too much (for me anyway) makes finding affordable wide fast primes difficult in EF mount.

    2.No AF (Right?)

    3.Looks to me you have to go through sub menu to change iso setting (Nex & dumbed down GF series get flack for this why not BMCC? it costs more!)

    4.Not enough buttons for shortcuts to certain settings. I like buttons.

    5.Touch screen is the devil (looking at the video demo I cringed when the rep had to press the screen a couple of times for something to happen!)

  • 16mm sensor with EF-mount is a HUGE letdown. The idea of getting one and using some nice 16mm cine lenses was an idea I liked, but with an EF-mount that might not work.

  • 16mm sensor with EF-mount is a HUGE letdown.

    May be this come from the project history.
    As in early days it could be just lens converter for existing camera with ability to control EF lenses. It had been popular trend in last 1-2 years.

  • My take:

    1. No XLRs (despite audio inputs are balanced)

    XLR would be better (What I'm used to) .. it's balanced so that's good and EBU switchable. I prefer 6.5mm to 2.5mm that I have now

    2. No phantom power on audio input. Not good for condenser mikes.

    This is a bummer .. that said .. 95% of time I have a mixer on set or record dual system.

    3. 30fps maximum only, many like 60fps now, and 120fps becomes new standard for pro cameras already

    I acknowledge it would be nice .. slow motion is not the deal breaker for me

    4. Uncompressed only option for RAW requiring big investments

    Perhaps, personally my computer, post equipment will handle it.

    5. SSD connectors are completely unsuitable for frequent insertion

    This I shall have to read on, I need number of insertion rating

    6. Long and complicated RAW workflow

    Personally I don't see it as complex .. I am AVID based for me it will become: offline @ DNxHD 36Mbits .. online and grade within AVID @ 220Mbits .. if shot compressed Or: offline @ DNxHD 36Mbits .. grade and master in Resolve if shot RAW .. I acknowledge I haven't proven the 'export AVID sequence to Resolve' bit works

    7. Required investments in backup solutions due to big file sizes

    Yes .. This trend will not ever stop .. blurays perhaps .. they're about $3 on ebay .. or HDD under $100 for 2 terrabytes. Also the needs grow per project .. and I will incorporate the charge into providing a work workflow

    8. Absent HDMI connection, so you need to buy new and much more costly monitor or EVF.

    I've been wishing for SDI and an end to HDMI .. this make me happy .. it's a cost .. but it's a better solution.

  • "Absent HDMI connection, so you need to buy new and much more costly monitor or EVF."

    hasn't there been talk of a simple thunderbolt to hdmi cable?

  • hasn't there been talk of a simple thunderbolt to hdmi cable?

    Yep, some mentioning by members.
    But I am afraid that it is not so simple.

  • HDMI issue

    http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/batteryconverters/

    Pretty affordable .. very versatile .. way cheaper than a thunderbolt laptop

  • @kavadni

    thanks for the link, i have the old version of the sdi to hdmi but didn't realize BM made battery powered units. That's certainly a better solution than finding AC power.

  • AJA has announced the T-Tap (http://www.aja.com/en/products/t-tap/#/overview), it seems to be powered via Thunderbolt.

  • Just seems to me that this cam is not that well thought out. I mean, it should have HDMI, plain and simple. But we will see :)

  • @DrDave

    Just seems to me that this cam is not that well thought out. I mean, it should have HDMI,

    I suppose BMD has some useful converters in their portfolio they would love to sell. Wrong?

  • Thunderbolt to HDMI i think will work only to get HDMI out from computer (Mac) as it is support inside. I doubt you can get HDMI out from any Thunderbolt if there is not hardware support inside (camera). I can't exactly Thunderbolt protocol, but i know that this supports speeds up to 10 Gbit/s of data ... So if there is support within camera hardware to push video data out, than is needed a special convertor to get out HDMI from "Thunderbolt" port. There might be some convertor "Thunderbolt" to USB 3.0 (6Gbit/s), don't know if there is any ... Maybe someone can explain how this works when used for video ... ?!

  • IMO, HDMI needs to go away. It is not a secure connection, and I've had cables and ports both break on me. HDMI is a consumer connector. Its great for your blu-ray player that just sits at home, but on a camera thats moving around, its just waiting to break. From an audio perspective, I've also had an HDMI cable give me very strange feedback.

    Its better than nothing, but its high time it went away and was replaced with something more robust.

    again, just my opinion.

    1. 30fps maximum only, many like 60fps now, and 120fps becomes new standard for pro cameras already I acknowledge it would be nice .. slow motion is not the deal breaker for me

    Its not just about slow motion. From what my experience is 50/60frames a second vastly reduces rolling shutter and strobing when you are panning the camera. My older Tm700 at 50p has far less rolling shutter than the Gh2 has at say 24P...and the Gh2's rolling shutter/ srobing decreases dramatically at the 720P on 50 or 60 Fps settings. To me anyway not having 50/60 frames a second at 1080p is now a deal breaker with digital cameras, and for me it's totally necessary unless I plan to pan very slow or do practically no panning at all. YMMV tho

  • @Astro, interesting take .. Is the reduction in rolling shutter effect due to frame rate or shutter speed? Is the reduction still evident when (I assume) you drop every second frame, if so it would imply it's shutter speed that reduces the effect rather than frame rate

  • Lack of wide angle lenses. EF mount plus crop factor is a major weakness

  • @kavadni, shutter speed does not effect rolling shutter like frame rate. Try recording at 24 fps with a 1/200 shutter speed and move the camera around a lot, then record at 60fps with 1/200 shutter speed. The 60fps footage is noticeably smoother and has a lot less rolling shutter effects.

  • Hi On the GH2 I have tried all kinds of shutter speeds...I am in PAL land, I have tested it extensively as I'm getting ready to shoot some music videos. So anyway yeah at 25P or 24P no matter what the shutter speed is, its stroby and ghosts quite a bit (electronic looking) when you pan the camera...unless its a very slow pan. Generally at 25 frames I have the shutter at 50, but even when its lower...say down to 25 its still quite shuddery, of course it starts getting streaky when it goes at lower speeds, it does it on all hacks too. But it practically disappears on the 720P/50 frame setting, similarly my older TM700 hardly does it at all on 1080P/50, in other words you can throw that camera around quite a bit more without feeling seasick when you look back at the footage. I have tried this with different lens...stabilized and non stabilized and also tried modifying the hacks and lowering bitrates etc... The only consistent I have found in my tests is that if the frame rate is higher the effect starts disappearing (every single time). So I am 90% sure its to do with frame rates somehow, even 30P reduces the effect somewhat.

    Of course any movement in front of the lens is fine as long as the camera is more or less stable, but I find I have to be very careful with moving the camera itself. Thats why when I read the Blackmagics frame rate I pretty much lost interest in the camera, plus (although I used to be on the Mac) I am now back on the PC, and that camera seems very much Mac orientated. SO I am hoping the GH3 will bring something nice (like higher frame rates to the table) I am not holding my breath tho LOL!!

  • @kavadni

    shutter speed does not effect rolling shutter like frame rate. Try recording at 24 fps with a 1/200 shutter speed and move the camera around a lot, then record at 60fps with 1/200 shutter speed. The 60fps footage is noticeably smoother and has a lot less rolling shutter effects.

    @onlocation Yep thats dead right!! Thats exactly what all my tests have come up with

  • @astro and @onlocation .. I accept your observations .. that said it doesn't make sense to me at the moment. possibly not understanding difference between ccd and cmos fully

  • Power switch button in in the same row as transport buttons and near Menu button. Weird.

  • No tiltable LCD screen. How do you hand held this Black Magic?

  • How do you hand held this Black Magic?

    Using external monitor or EVF with HD-SDI input :-)