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Nikon D4. The new king with uncompressed HDMI output.
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  • No @kholi because all the other D4 'flagship' samples look the same. It is not resolving more than 720 lines.

    Unless Nikon instructed all their pro shooters to upload crippled files at 7Mbit 720p, I'm afraid we have a dud on our hands.

  • The only issue is that people (like one poster here) have come back from CES with a completely different POV.

    I'm not saying that the 720 thing is right, but there are way too many variables to apply here. Nothing can truly be judged (aside from skew/jello and maybe color) until camera files are uploaded to users for peeping.

    If it IS the case, then you're right. It's a dud, and no amount of marketing spin can change that.

  • "Nothing can truly be judged (aside from skew/jello and maybe color) until camera files are uploaded to users for peeping."

    Yes that is correct.

    I've never pretended otherwise. But you have to admit, it isn't looking good! And I think initial films are a good indicator, like Reverie was for 5D Mk II.

  • actually reverie was not very good either.

    30P bad video looking motion

    It was however good Bokeh Porn and Low Light Porn

  • The 5D was 30p when he shot it, that is why.

  • AHHH, EOSHD... :-) The supermarket tabloid of tech news. Always good for a laugh, but rarely a reliable source.

  • And pinger007 is?

  • @EOSHD your vulgarity is getting old.

  • All of you need to chill, and @eoshd has an amazing ability to provide opinions that are based on facts and results, he is helpful to many filmmakers and camera geeks like EVERYONE on this site. The only morons here are the one taking eoshd opinion as fact. Look past your own fanboyism for a second and base it of your own opinions if you don't like others. But from what I have seen, and in no noob in the industry, is that the Nikon is a step in the right direction for nikonNikon and that's is, the dof is too shallow to replicate film, the latitude is nothing new, the bokeh is sex, but that's not a good thing when trying to replicate "cinema" the footage is soft soft soft, and the sensor and processor are clearly over compensating with edge detail enhancement. The issue is that Nikon has yet to hand over the D4 to any competent enough (as far as the general public has seen) that can do the camera true justice. No one has either confirmed or denied that any footage was made using the HDMI out to a good recorder. Leave the opinions up to people who are skilled and experienced like @eoshd unless you think you know better, than listen only to yourself and shut up

  • Reverie sucked - I would take 'Why' over that any day of the year, Laforet is a mediocre director, so anything he does will reflect that. Anyway...

    EOSHD, I certainly acknowledge your opinion, however as always you go way over the top with your sensational emotions. The camera will be released in less than a month - very soon more and more 'sample's' will be flooding the airwaves. Get your hands on one for a week, see what you can or can't do with it, and post your unbiased (i know impossible for you -LOL) review then...MAYBE your opinion might be taken seriously.

  • @yourmom

    It's dangerous because some people actually aren't experienced enough to look past it as fact. Those just starting out looking for information can have damaged perceptions about things, and that doesn't make them morons, it makes them inexperienced.

    That's the issue at hand, and I personally don't think it's that hard of a concept to understand.

  • @kholi I have been on here for a very long time and I know that you too have given good information and tests as have I, I think people are viewing this site wrong, I hate to say it but the info on this are is a bit advanced, I would prefer that people go to places such as dvx for noob questions... Or just don't speak up unless they have a relevant question. You yourself can't argue that you haven't used eoshd opinions and review to swap your own... He is passionate and that's a good thing for all of us

  • @Yourmom -- with all due respect to Andrew...

    I've never... EVER used anything Andrew Reid has said to formulate an opinion or base any of my work on.

    EVER.

    I don't even visit EOSHD blog/website unless someone's telling me/linking me to something "Andrew said".

    But, as far as the rest of the topic, it is an advanced thing these forums here, but if someone's misinforming a population on their popular blog then that's not a good thing. It can't be. I think that's what Sohus and the rest are responding too.

    Once more, no disrespect meant, but when eyes are on you like that it's your duty to make sure you're presenting information properly.

  • @kholi though Andrew has yet to misrepresent anything... It is all opinion and people went on personal attacks. Now on to the camera, the true reason this thread is here. I am excited to see a camera with the ability to natively use Nikon G glass... What would be amazing is it the aperture could be controlled via the rotating wheel with no click stops but set to any aperture like declicked cinema glass :)

    Not impressed with the fact its 4:2:2 8bit. 10Bit would have been the $$ maker

  • @kholi

    My thoughts exactly. I teach cinematography in Chicago and every semester I have to explain to my new students that just because they read something on a certain popular blog doesn't mean it's true. Certain sites wield a great deal of power in the filmmaking community (this being one of them), and it's each site's "duty to make sure they're presenting information properly."

  • I would prefer that people go to places such as dvx for noob questions... Or just don't speak up unless they have a relevant question. ...............

    Hey about if YOU go there instead?

  • I do go there and I don't have any noob questions because I have dedicated a lot to this site, a lot to this gh2 community and try my best to share my knowledge with people with relevant questions

  • Guys, Andy adds more to the community than he takes away from it, so stop with the character assassination. Smile and a coke, and get back to constructively critiquing, dramatised or not.

    For what it's worth, I think the D4 has issues with scaling, leading to softness and aliasing, based on what I have seen so far. Regardless of publishing and acquisition, which can obviously skew opinions, there's a few things, and yes Andy had highlighted them, that I can't believe can be a result of workflow.

    But, just like Andy expressed his opinion...all be it more dramatically than mine, time will tell, and fingers crossed it 'is' an anomaly. It just doesn't look like one so far.

  • "It's dangerous because some people actually aren't experienced enough to look past it as fact. Those just starting out looking for information can have damaged perceptions about things, and that doesn't make them morons, it makes them inexperienced."

    Well, then their results will speak for themselves. Not everyone on the internet is responsible for holding everyone's hands. There are many different perspectives. In fact most of the time, all that talk from the "experienced" is nothing more than brainwashing to protect the current job hierarchy in the industry and keep you "ladder climbing". It's just as dangerous as the contrary. EOSHD may be brash at times... but at least it's one of the only sites to just throw all the industry dogma to the wind and discuss camera's for their merits on where they stand tech wise... and not on what "market" they're supposed to fit into, or weather it was designed for "pro" use or not.

  • If D4 is crap, it's Nikon's worries, not ours. There are many other options available now or sooner. We just have to make sure our pocket is deep enough.

  • @pinger007

    It's a good thing that you're warning your students to cross-examine information that they come across. Quickly subscribing to sensational and idealistic views that lack a fundamental understanding of basics and design is dangerous for anyone who wants to grow a career.

    I think, as a community, those of us who've been around the major forums for years have a tendency to want to protect others regardless of if it's our job or not... however, the noise is becoming greater by the passing day, and it's just hard to continue caring.

    Glad there are people still willing to share valid, experienced point-of-views and facts versus fiction and fantasy from the real working field; hope it survives the tidal wave.

  • The "Original Footage" is just a download of the youtube stream. Using saveyoutube.com generates a file the exact same number of bytes as the "original footage".

  • Anyone want to place bets? Ill paypal $100 to anyone up for it.

    I side with Andrew - the D4 won't be worth the cash if video is the only requirement.

    Hint: I was at CES Las Vegas and while they wouldn't let me put in memory cards, the CMOS wobble was very present on the floor sample, as was aliasing and an overall mushy waxy look to the clips they were showing. Micro contrast and detail just wasn't there. If Nikon were confident that they had a 1DX killer they would share full samples. Their CES on floor reps were "very" reserved about how the D4 would look - even using a recorder like an Atmos Ninja or Blackmagic recorder.

    No doubt it will be a stunning high iso FF stills camera though. But $6000 can buy a ton of Kino Flo lights or a damn good HMI.

    I believe the Nikon D4 to be a $5000 still camera with a $1000 video camera (high iso) added.

    The D4 ships first few weeks of Feb. so we will know soon enough. All the early adopters will beta test it for the rest of the world. And even if the video is godly, $6,000 and the need to buy and haul around an external recorder? You could rent a Red Scarlet for a week four or five times and still have money left over. People buying the D4 are buying it for the stills. I just don't see it being a video breakthrough.

    PS: And whats with the rip on Andrews EOShd website? Low blow? Don't like his opinion, counter it and stick to the topic - no need to bash his site. Very lame.

  • EOSHD, pleas be one of the first who puts the D4 through a real video pixel peep test. I already love it! (you haven't canceled your preorder based on this maybe fake D4 clip, have you?)

  • Given the screenshot, it is crap. The (major) image quality issues isn't a codec problem, but a lack of even a simple downscaling filter such as bicubic, it isn't a simple matter of having 720 lines of resolving power as stated, it's a matter of a huge amount of missing spatial information in between each pixel, it would be like taking a tiny box cutter, and sub-dividing a printed photo into millions of tiny squares, removing many of them, then putting the remaining squares back together.

    It's not lack of resolution, it's a lack of not using all the physical information to form the picture. A really shitty low resolution lens of 26 lp/mm or there abouts on a 36mm wide/1080p sensor could mostly solve it (or stopping down to f/72...), as you wouldn't be removing (much) spatial info.

    Down scaling would be implemented in software. There should be no doubt that the image processor is fast enough for it either.

    @troyjason it still should be a few hundred dollars better than the GH2 then given that logic, except that it is a $6000 camera. It doesn't cost $1000 per unit to implement video. It costs SFA since the hardware is already there, as is all the ground work of turning it into a video stream over the image processor from previous models.