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Expose To The Right (ETTR)
  • I kept learning more about highlight roll-off, greyscale chart, histogram to make more "film" look when using DSLR. Why?

    These articles give us glimpse into one dark area of DSLR revolution. Our latest and greatest DSLRs still use 100+ years old exposure technology that used to work well with film gadgets. But "CCD and CMOS chips are linear devices." That inherent characteristic of digital sensors doesn't work nicely with the traditional exposure technology that the camera makers are still implementing. Interestingly this might explain why overblown highlight area could suck up most of encoding bits from GH2. The film modes like Smooth and Nostalgic with smooth highlight roll-off seem blessing.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml

  • 55 Replies sorted by
  • @hishimaru - "The author is talking about digital raw stills and I think he's making a good point."

    As long as you've got good lighting along with 12 or 14-bit RAW color depth. Only then are highlights more of an issue than noise. In nighttime available light, however, pulling the shadow details off the noise floor is still crucial, along with keeping ISO as low as possible.
  • @LPowell
    The author is talking about digital raw stills and I think he's making a good point.
    Digital noise is not as much of a deal breaker as it used to be. And even more so if you compare to film.
    I'd like to see some ISO 51000 film that's as clean as what is possible from some DSLRs today.. oh wait.. not possible.
    However, abrupt blown highlights are still a problem even with the best DSLRs out there. It's a dead giveaway that it's digital.
    But to each their own I guess. I'd personally have some shadow noise and avoid blunt highlight clips.
    Again, this article is written completely about RAW stills and not video.
  • @dkitsov
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone advocate overexposing highlights on a digital camera, and I think that's where the article indulges in a straw-man argument. In addition to blowing out highlight detail, overexposure will shift the color balance of any non-white highlight. A reddish-orange car taillight, for example, can turn yellowish as the red channel saturates before the green does.

    In my view, the author's most misleading claim was "These days, noise is really not a big source of image quality loss..." In my work, I hit the noise floor every time I deal with GH2 shadow detail, especially with 8-bit AVCHD frames whose noise bits are much more granular than 12 or 14-bit RAW images. It's always preferable to digitize shadows with as many bits as you can squeeze out of the camera, so long as you don't blow the highlights. In post, the more bits of color depth you have, the easier it is to grade the shadow details.
  • To me ETTR only makes sense with a recording at 10 bit (or more), like RAW, S-log, Log-C or the like plus if a serious color grading session is in your budget and time.

    If you recording in 8 bit you need to get exposure and contrast right in camera, no second chance. You may say that working with a cheaper camera is more demanding than with an expensive one.
  • @LPowell, it seems that there are two different expose to the right understandings. To me expose to the right was always about perhaps overexposing visually (using a histogram as a reference so not to clip the highlights) but recording more info and ten correcting in post. The article you are unhappy with seems to concentrate on the exposing to the right as the right being an absolute limit for the highlights, which for the high contrast (as the scene they use in the article) scenes will of course cause an extreme underexposure. This however does not change the fact that it is a good practice for digital just like it was for the slide film to expose for the highlights (do not clip them) and then use all the fill and bounce you can afford to equalize the exposure. I fully agree that for the low contrast scenes expose to the right is the best way to go.
  • When a camera's DR can't cover entire range, gotta crush black and/or roll off highlight. I guess that's another walking on thin ice, too.

    In that case I'd prefer highlight roll-off if ISO can stay low enough. Especially daylight. I might lose some highlight detail if it clips just little... but it's ok to me. That might crush black to avoid extreme clipping. That's ok, too.
  • Well, as a general rule, I do think usually about saving highlights shooting video, same as we used to do with Kodachrome, etc. You can pull up noisy blacks but you can't usually pull back blown whites.
  • @dkitsov
    Regardless of how you expose it, a digital image sensor has a linear response to light, while film is logarithmic. That's why the author's claim is "bull".
  • Well it certainly does as far as exposure is concerned. With digital just like with slide you expose for the highlights and fill for shadows. With negative you expose for shadows and develop for your highlights.
  • @hishimaru
    The Online Photographer blog: "These days, noise is really not a big source of image quality loss..."

    Talk about bullshit. I almost stopped reading right there. Then comes the next paragraph:

    "The thing is, digital behaves like slide film..."

    LOL, if only it did!
  • I love this comment on that article: "I have learned to expose the subject right."
  • Exposing to the right is great when it's great. If you're trying to keep blue sky color, or any number of different scenarios, it's bad blanket policy. Best to say it's 'often' a good idea. Expose for what's best for the shot you're composing.
  • Ah, so just lower bitrate then - no advantage in terms of luminance (yes I said chroma by mistake) levels. Thank you again. I'll shoot in colour then.
  • @LucasAdamson
    In B&W film mode, the AVCHD encoder will store minimal data in the two chroma channels and record the luma channel as usual.
  • @nomad Thanks - I'll give that a go. Useful to have this as a starting-point because once you're in the dark and cold, it's tricky to play around with menus.

    Cheers!
  • @LPowell, I have an upcoming short, shooting on GH1s with Peak Reliability patch (thanks btw) for a film we want to be b&w. Would shooting in camera B&W improve levels of chroma available, or just reduce bitrate?
  • "Smooth" and "Nostalgic" will give you lower in-camera contrast to compress that scene, plus you can dial down contrast to minimum (-2).

    But, as I tried to explain above, only do that for hi-con scenes.
  • Guys, sorry for the silly question, but I've never really much used anything other than standard and I've been using lighting / reflectors to control DR, together with making adjustments in post.

    Last night I was attempting to shoot the moon through a telescope and using various other lenses, and it was varying quite a lot as the clouds passed in front of it (nice effect though). Because the brightness was going up and down I simply couldn't arrive at an exposure which worked at both "ends" of the scale, ie to show the details on the bright surface when there weren't any clouds, and at the other end, to show the dim moon with the clouds around it, lit up. That's a scenario with a huge dynamic range, and I discovered that because I couldn't capture the extremes well, it was pretty much impossible to do anything with the images afterwards.

    So are there good in-camera settings that give a bit more highlight / lowlight compression for contrasty subjects so you can get the best out of the 8 bits available? I know, I can experiment, but some of you must be more familiar with the various presets on the camera than I am and I was hoping you could suggest what to try.

    The one good thing about my Canon XHA1 was its comprehensive menus for highlight and lowlight compression but because the GH2 is so good anyway, I haven't particularly had issues with using Standard up till now. And unfortunately the moon scenario isn't one I can control with lighting or reflectors!
  • @LucasAdamson - "So if my hypothetical shot has nothing in the top stop (half of all available levels!) and I need to expose in that area (and I agree that I do), will raising ISO to get there really help me out at all?"

    Increasing ISO will of course increase noise as well. When shadow detail is a high priority, I'm willing to tolerate a bit more noise to get it. But if I'm planning on crushing the blacks for a high contrast look, I'll favor the highlights instead.

    As @stonebat suggests, I first set aperture and shutter speed (typically 1/60). How far I'm willing to push ISO depends on the camera. The GH1 was fine up through ISO 400. Beyond that, I'd make a judgment call - drop the shutter down to 1/30 if not too much motion blur, and/or raise ISO up to 800 and deal with noise reduction in post. The GH2 looks good up through ISO 800, and 1600 is acceptable if necessary. On my Nikon D5100, I can take ISO up to 1600 without noise issues, and as far as 3200 max. Each camera has its own particular strengths and weaknesses.
  • I'd determine aperture and shutter speed. Then ISO varies up to a limiter. Comfortably up to 800. Maybe 1250.

    But I don't want to stick to ETTR all the time. Sometimes it's nice to do underexposing to give a proper mood.

    Even if there is enough lighting to keep ISO low, sometimes the source clips still look crappy. I think that's when ETTR can shine.
  • Let me get this straight.

    So, I'm shooting outside on an overcast day. I have my camera set to ISO 100, and the histogram is showing a small dynamic range, low contrast shot, in the middle of the scale.

    I 100% agree that getting the histogram to register the scene to the right makes sense, but raising ISO to get there? Not quite fully convinced yet. Those tests you posted @LPowell, were shutter speed adjusted stills and the author did not compare with ISO bracketed shots, which might be used in video.

    This theory came from photography, where there is a choice of 3 exposure variables to adjust - aperture, shutter speed & ISO, whereas in video, generally speaking we only have the two - aperture and ISO, with shutter speed best left where it is for the most part. In photography, shutter speed would be the most obvious choice to me for ETTR, but the results will inevitably be compromised if ISO is used for bracketing, and ISO is commonly used for exposure control in DSLR video.

    So if my hypothetical shot has nothing in the top stop (half of all available levels!) and I need to expose in that area (and I agree that I do), will raising ISO to get there really help me out at all? This is still unproved to me with the tests posted (though I don't doubt it could be - it seems feasible.).
  • I think ETTR explains why highlight roll-off can be a good thing. Often 8-bit depth won't give enough DR. Then we gotta decide either overexpose or underexpose. I prefer slight overexposure if ISO can stay low enough. That feels like walking on thin ice :)
  • @stonebat Sure, but it's good to know - like it's good to know not to ever expose to the left, I mean. I wouldn't have known that necessarily, and it's pretty important if you've only got 8 bit depth.

    @lpowell Much obliged for your clear explanations and clarifications, as well as your top notch hacks! Thank you!
  • @LucasAdamson - "would you agree that ETTR has a place in 8 bit acquisition?"

    Yes, the fewer bits you have to work with, the more important it is to make optimal use of them.